Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 2, 2014 23:39:08 GMT -5
Kay probably never heard of the Belmont Stakes until he got his cushy job LOL They'll "address the issues" after they hire a high priced spin doctor to go along with the hiree for "Fan Experience". Shouldn't she be fired by now?! Hardly sounds lime "isolated incidents"
Fan Group Critical of Belmont Day Experience
By Tom Precious
Bloodhorse
A state-created fan advisory group has blasted the New York Racing Association for operations June 7 for Belmont Stakes (gr. I) day, saying problems that hit everything from parking lots to betting lines to lack of security hurt the industry's stated goal of trying to reach new fans.
"What was a rare opportunity to bring new fans to the sport was instead marred by embarrassing missteps that all but ensured those potential fans would not become a part of New York's storied horse racing legacy,'' wrote the New York State Racing Fan Advisory Council in a letter dated July 2 and sent to the head of NYRA.
The letter was released by the New York State Gaming Commission, which regulates NYRA. The association is now run by a state-dominated board of directors as part of a temporary reorganization.
The advisory council said it appreciated NYRA's effort to expand the day's race card and full fields, as well as additional entertainment meant to attract new fans to Belmont Park. But it said NYRA botched the handling of the day in a series of ways the council has been warning about since 2012. The group said its recommendations have either been "discounted or ignored" by NYRA.
The problems witnessed by members of the council either first-hand or through accounts of patrons "raise serious questions regarding NYRA's pre-event planning and overall strategy for conducting the event," the council's letter states. The five-member advisory group said the many troubles occurred on a day when NYRA already raised the grandstand admission price by 500% and a cup of beer cost $10.
It said the bad experiences began in the parking lots, where patrons who in some cases paid as much as $100 in advance to reserve a space were turned away when the lots filled early on a day that attracted more than 100,000 people. Buses packed with patrons were also turned away and had to park far from the track; a bus driver of a charter from the Racing Hall of Fame in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., reported having to pay a first-ever fee of $150 for parking.
The council said security was often "absent'' during the day, leading to problems of patrons holding seat tickets having to "fend for themselves'' with "squatters'' who were often "intoxicated or uncooperative.'' The advisory group blasted NYRA for not having enough restrooms and inadequate food and drink supplies, forcing long lines of people with no recourse if they wanted to stay hydrated and fed on a day when coolers were banned by NYRA. It said the track's public address system also malfunctioned during the day.
The council said NYRA also likely lost "significant revenue'' because of "virtually non-existent" WiFi and cellular service that kept many from accessing NYRA's telephone or online wagering platforms.
After attendees encountered all those issues, the council said it didn't get any better for patrons leaving the track after the final race. It said delays can be expected with such large crowds, but that problems were made worse by what the group called "poor crowd and traffic control, uninformed staff, and misinformation.''
"The council has repeatedly stressed the importance of Belmont Stakes day to New York racing,'' the group wrote to Christopher Kay, president of NYRA. It called on NYRA to take "significant steps to ensure that fans attending its future marquee race days enjoy their experience.''
The council asked the state's Franchise Oversight Board, which monitors NYRA's finances, to look into the matter. It also asked NYRA leaders to address a public fan forum in Saratoga Springs in August about the day's problems and to "commit that great attention will be given to customer service for racing fans."
NYRA thus far hasn't publicly addressed all the issues brought up by the fan advisory council and individual attendees.
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Post by mackdaddy on Jul 3, 2014 8:19:55 GMT -5
Every track that attracts big crowds has long lines to the windows. NYRA can charge $10 per beer because they knew over 100, 000 or more will show up for Belmont Day and patrons will pay that. Same goes for a football, baseball or basketball game. I really get sick and tired of hearing peoples"bad experience" at the track. It happens everywhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 8:34:00 GMT -5
I saw that a couple of days ago, and figured sooner or later one of the "I Hate NY Racing" group here would come across it and post it. The whole concept of the group, although state appointed, is idiotic. It's a "Fan Advisory Council", but if you look at who is on the four-member "council", there is an attorney from Albany, an Orange County legislator, the historian of the National Museum of Racing, a Director of the New York Farm Bureau, and the town Administrator of Elmsford (NOT Elmont!) Not a single day-to-day "fan". Why isn't an average guy from the apron at Belmont Park on the Council? Where's Vinny Goombatz? One should read their "report" and recommendations submitted to the Gaming Commission on MAY 29, based on what THEY saw in their 2013 "research". That report destroys all credibility this "council" may have had. Among their recommendations are: Tracks, at the Commission’s urging, must review takeout rates and identify opportunities in which to lower takeout (the state legislature establishes takeout, not the tracks)Tracks should find and implement means to encourage attendance at live racing which work for their facility and customers by offering special rewards to fans who attend regularly, including discounted parking, admission or merchandise (NYRA has been doing this for decades!)Handicapping contests should be promoted and expanded (NYRA has been doing this for decades!)Tracks must expand use of available technology. Operators should further explore and implement wagering applications for tablets and smart phones. (NYRA has had online and telephone betting for several years)Video replays of races at all tracks should be accessible via tablets and smart phones. (Ditto above! Available for years)Trakus and similar speed monitoring systems should be incorporated at the track. (Ditto above! Already implemented)Create and foster rewards and incentive programs that apply to all levels of bettors (didn't they even TRY to look into the "NYRA Reward" program, which already does this?)Initiate the “I Love New York Horse Racing Campaign.” (REALLY??)And finally, probably MOST important to them: Establish a modest budget for the Racing Fan Advisory CouncilIf one searches around long enough, they'll find enough disgruntled people, most likely big losers on June 7. You can read the full "report" here: www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaming.ny.gov%2Fpdf%2F05.29.14.RFACReportRecommendations.pdf&ei=bFu1U8rLBoSQyASEpYKoCg&usg=AFQjCNGnUWQ3el-Of4ABim_qZWqD1WNNiQ&sig2=gTnDtv-LqJWwnvZnG3ucWg&bvm=bv.70138588,d.aWw If that doesn't work, google: "new york state racing fan advisory council" |
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Jul 3, 2014 8:59:19 GMT -5
Nice try Alan. Everything stated in the letter was right on target. NYRA WAS UNPREPARED PERIOD. I have stated and showed how NYRA should have prepared for the Belmont. For all here who think that a crowd of 100000 present problems that can't be handle with relative ease think again. Granted that even with best made plans there is always the possibility of unseen problem arising but with well trained personnel that to can be handled. Bottom line you prepare for the worst and hope for the best a concept tried and proven but apparently unheard of at NYRA.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 11:07:15 GMT -5
Aside from the blatant inaccuracies (I'll hold off on calling them "lies"!) like Grandstand Admission being raised "500%" (it was $10, which it's been since at least 1999), there are other things mentioned in the letter that are either exaggerations or routine situations at events with as many people as attended the Belmont Stakes.
For example, not enough rest rooms? Have any of you ever been to Belmont Park? There are probably more rest rooms there than any other sports venue in the country. They could have put in some portable toilets, but most likely there would have been complaints about smelly port-o-sans.
Again - AGAIN - the SAME things happen at EVERY sporting event that attracts that number of people - the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Super Bowl, the Indianapolis 500, Daytona 500, etc. And don't bring up Times Square on New Year's Eve - everyone get there on foot and leaves on foot.
For example, at the Kentucky Derby parking is available at the football stadium more than a mile from the track. Churchill Downs provided shuttle buses from the stadium, but there was a $15 charge for the shuttle bus (Belmont's shuttle buses are FREE and the parking lots are on track grounds, not a mile away)
The bottom line is, if you WANT to find things to complain about, you'll find them.
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Post by mackdaddy on Jul 3, 2014 14:16:25 GMT -5
So LT1, you are saying Belmont couldnt handle the big crowds for a possible TC winner in 2014, but had no complaints in 2008 or 2004? What difference does it make? (Sorry Hillary). A 100, 000 is still 100, 000 whether it was 6 years ago or not. I am pretty sure Belmont can handle the crowd. It takes a few bad apples like these "advisory idiots" that gives the live racing experience a bad rap. If they were smart enough, which I think the story is horseshit, they should have a betting account and skip the lines.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Jul 3, 2014 16:18:35 GMT -5
Mack what I'm am saying is that regardless of what year there is no reason on earth to take 3 hrs to empty the track. Also there was a lack of security and other personnel. I'm am talking from my own experience in the NYPD. You must plan for these events and NYRA didn't plain and simple. This was not the 1st Belmont stakes to be run. As far as giving racing a black eye NYRA did it to themselves. They bragged about what a great fan experience it would be and they blew it period. All the folks that I know who go to the Belmont all said it was by far the worst time they ever had.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Jul 3, 2014 16:29:13 GMT -5
Alan yes there are plenty of restrooms at Belmont. The problem is there have been 2 Belmonts that I was at when there were numerous non working working toilets in the building. Again you can knock the Council all you want but the safety problems were real and no amount of spinning by you can change that. If NYRA truly is interested in improving the fan experience on Belmont Day they had better implement the safety steps outlined in the letter or you will be looking at another repeat of this years fiasco.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 17:10:35 GMT -5
I've never seen a non-working fixture at any Belmont rest room (never was in the ladies' rooms, though)
You know, if they announced that they were giving free lunch and a $100 voucher to everyone who showed up, we'd still see a bunch of people pissing and moaning about it ("why can't they give us cash instead of a voucher", and "I don't like filet mignon and they didn't have any hamburgers"!!!).
In the big picture, it was a great day - perfect weather, the best card ever at any race track in the US other than a breeders cup day (and better than some of those too)
It's funny that the people who bitch the most about it are those who were NOT there, boast that they don't bet into the track pools, or say that they haven't been to Belmont in years. Go figure!
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Post by Evelyn on Jul 3, 2014 22:17:50 GMT -5
George - Same back at you! Were you there? Have you actually spoken to anyone who was? I have, including Nancy's nephew who happens to be a very cool guy. IT WAS A FAN DISASTER! Basically you're saying every news account, from small local papers and TV to the large city ones was wrong. That's just wrong! There was a ton of rhetoric regarding catering to fans. BUT - nothing along those lines was actually delivered. They didn't even have people cleaning during the day from what I heard. The ladies rooms were filthy by the 4th race and ran out of tp and paper towels. Lovely - NOT! People bought the advertising rap. It proved to be false advertising. 1000's of people were pissed off - not a handful of "disgruntled people" that had to be sought out
When a bettor is attending a racing event, they deserve more. Because they are betting. They are adding to the host's coffers. And that's why it's not fair to compare a race day to a football game. People are not asked to BET during a football game. They may bet but it doesn't create revenue for the host owner. What happened Belmont Day does NOT happen at "every sporting event".
You can have your opinions but they are Opinions. They are NOT Facts. As to your stupid voucher analogy - ridiculous! People bought the advertising rap.
I think it's a good thing there was no TC. People would have celebrated, drinking more,hanging out longer - and then, things would have gotten really really ugly and probably dangerous. No one wants to part of a crowd of pissed NY'ers who have had too much to drink.
And - most of all - no one has complained about the RACING. I love NY Racing. IMO People who keeps stretching the truth to support this NYRA, comprised mostly of racing stupid people, are the ones who hate NY racing!
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Jul 4, 2014 8:52:29 GMT -5
Alan the year Big Brown went for the TC the toilets were out of order. As for parking lots on the grounds that is true but the are several more then a mile away from the track from which you must take a bus. You say don't bring up New Years Eve and I say why not. You have to move and control a crowd much larger then Belmont Day. Here's another for you the West Indian Parade on Labor Day in Brooklyn. Again a crowd much larger then Belmont and the people drink and eat all day and as a bonus throw in several shootings, stabbings, and fist fights for good measure and yet there is control. And how about World Series games at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. So let me ask you how many plans have you drawn up or implemented to deal with mass crowds at an event. I done my fair share of both and I telling you flat out the Belmont situation can be handled with proper planning and personnel. And that goes for any other event of that size.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 9:36:16 GMT -5
Well, that "fan group" lost all credibility when they said that NYRA raised General Admission by 500%, when it was the same as it's been for more than a decade. The letter says "reportedly" about something else, meaning "we don't know for sure, but let's just throw that in anyway".
And as I pointed out elsewhere, Tim said that it took him an hour and 45 minutes to leave a few years ago (under the non-Kay, "horsemen" NYRA board) when there were 60,000 people, which translates to 2 hours 55 minutes for 100,000.
It's not just Belmont Stakes day, it's just about everything about these three tracks because you don't like Cuomo and you don't like the fact that a "reorganization board" has HAD to be put into place because of the rampant corruption of the previous board made up of the type of people you all think should be there. Look at it this way, if the so-called "horsemen" board hadn't been so freaking corrupt and been mired in so many scandals and criminal acts, the board in place today would never have existed!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 9:40:11 GMT -5
Alan the year Big Brown went for the TC the toilets were out of order. As for parking lots on the grounds that is true but the are several more then a mile away from the track from which you must take a bus. You say don't bring up New Years Eve and I say why not. You have to move and control a crowd much larger then Belmont Day. Here's another for you the West Indian Parade on Labor Day in Brooklyn. Again a crowd much larger then Belmont and the people drink and eat all day and as a bonus throw in several shootings, stabbings, and fist fights for good measure and yet there is control. And how about World Series games at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. So let me ask you how many plans have you drawn up or implemented to deal with mass crowds at an event. I done my fair share of both and I telling you flat out the Belmont situation can be handled with proper planning and personnel. And that goes for any other event of that size. "the year Big Brown went for the TC the toilets were out of order" - was that Chris Kay's fault? The furthest parking lot from the grandstand is on the backstretch. The track is 1-1/2 miles in circumference. That means the FURTHEST one could possibly park is 3/4 of a mile. And yes, most people who park back there take the bus. But they're not charged FIFTEEN DOLLARS to take that bus after they've paid to park their cars! |
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Post by Evelyn on Jul 4, 2014 11:41:22 GMT -5
George - There is nothing you can post that will make this NYRA board tolerable. They are BAD for NY Racing. Period. It's quite clear they didn't "get" the importance of Belmont Day. What a stupid question about Kay! Of course not but he was responsible for this year's mess. Really -no tp? Sorry I'm dwelling on that but it's simply an example of how things are actually being done, despite the rah rah rhetoric that so far has been meaningless. With the salary he's pulling down, Kay would have been fired anywhere else.
The stuff about other tracks has nothing to do with this thread IMO. Especially Churchill.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 14:16:33 GMT -5
So this year's parking mess, which is roughly equivalent to EVERY year's parking mess (as proven by Tim's example) is over and above all those other years? Ridiculous.
This NYRA board's performance, roughly equivalent to every other track management's performance proves that this board is bad, yet it's similar to the performance of every other track management's performance AND the performance of previous boards at other Belmont Stakes days?
At least there hasn't been any corruption, stealing, or federal oversight boards because of rampant criminal activity, so that puts this board above it's predecessors going back at leas to the turn of the century.
Part of what you're saying is correct, nothing I can say will make this NYRA board tolerable to you and the rest of the "I hate NY Racing" group, whether it's right or wrong.
Don't worry, this NYRA board is only temporary. Once they clean up the problems created by the good ol' boy corrupt boards before them, they'll be replaced - that's due to happen next year. As I said earlier, if it wasn't for the gross ineptitude and corruption of the previous scandal-ridden boards, this one would never have been deemed necessary.
At least NYRA and the NY racetracks dodged a bullet when Spitzer pulled the plug on a possible imminent sale to Stronach several years ago.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Jul 4, 2014 17:55:37 GMT -5
Alan you continue to miss my point. Until and unless someone at NYRA decides to seriously address the problems that happened this year and prior years they will continue to happen. Anyone can be caught short once. It happens to the best. But in NYRAS case they have never learned from past mistakes and made adjustments. I see you posted something about NJ Transit dismal performance after the Super Bowl. Here is another case of an inept group. How can they only have estimated 10 to 12 thousand riders when they knew that auto traffic into the game would be limited and public transportation was being touted as the way to get to game. Someone there needs to be fired. But to be truthful a Super Bowl in the Meadowlands is not a yearly event while the Belmont is. NYRA whether under the previous administration or this one has had plenty of time to get it right and hasn't yet. Like Monty pointed out this wasn't the first TC attempt to happen in the last decade. And for the record I didn't blame Kay for the toilets not working on Big Browns Belmont Day since he wasn't there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 18:59:53 GMT -5
just two points to add to this wonderful conversation, and they are on each side of the coin.
first off............."Here's another for you the West Indian Parade on Labor Day in Brooklyn. Again a crowd much larger then Belmont and the people drink and eat all day and as a bonus throw in several shootings, stabbings, and fist fights for good measure and yet there is control."
since when is fist fighting, stabbings, and shootings under control?
secondly.............. no matter what you say or how many facts you use, and I am not taking sides here, you will NEVER get George to admit he is wrong when it comes to politics or nyra. never!!
OBAMA!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 23:01:57 GMT -5
wiz, I'll admit when I'm wrong on either count. It just hasn't happened yet!  |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2014 0:43:00 GMT -5
Bottom line is George doesn't give a crap about tp!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 1:54:54 GMT -5
lolol good one jon.
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