Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 22, 2013 12:30:30 GMT -5
Weather happens. Frankly I hope the heavens open up and flood SA. At least other tracks in the East and Midwest know how to maintain tracks in bad weather. NY doesn't want the BC. Why not FL, MD, LA, TX?
At this point the BC is so lame, let it stay in CA. Eastern trainers will hopefully join the Euros and just ignore it or send thrid stringers.
It's a joke and hardly a world championship. In a few years they can add zebra and dachshund races to try to get people to go!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 12:35:42 GMT -5
The Breeders' Cup isn't held in September, it's held the first weekend in November, which is generally dry in New York. It hasn't rained on the first Saturday in November in NYC since at least 2004, which is when I stopped checking, you can check earlier here: www.almanac.com/weather/history/NY/New%20York/2004-11-06Even so, if today was Breeders' Cup day the turf races would have remained on the turf and the European horse would have loved the good - to - soft ground.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 13:03:30 GMT -5
sound like a jilted high school girl with no date to the prom. "I don't want to go anyway". wah wah wah!!!
santa anita doesn't need to maintain during bad weather. they don't have it like new York does. that's the point.
maybe they can just add 7 state bred maiden races instead and it will be just like an average card from Saratoga, Belmont, or aqueduct? btw, when did it become such a concern for the breeders cup to bend over backwards to welcome or make things convenient for the euros? if they choose to stay home, let them.
I love how everyone says its not a world championship day and bad mouths it now, but somehow the same people think that it will improve ratings and the public image by NOT having it and instead promoting local stakes. do you really think more people are going to watch or care about what is happening at one track in one section of the country or world? no, the BC is not perfect, but its better then not having it at all. but some would rather cut off their nose to spite their face just because they have been shunned.
its ok NEW YORKERS. someone out there still wants you,
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 22, 2013 13:13:21 GMT -5
Wiz - Totally incorrect. Read the original concept. It's not the Breeders Cup that was originated to be good for the sport. It's now the Breeders Cup corporation where the horses and racing are secondary to the BC Corp profit line. They need the Emirates as a partner? Sad
No one's crying. NY turned them down because the BC Corp offered a bad deal. What's wrong with FL, MD, KY, LA TX? You are just a Cuomo kinda guy - a NY racing - and I'll use your word - "hater". I don't hate CA racing as you've said. I just wish it was better! It's simply not very good because there aren't enough horses and outfits and few shippers. It's the same horsesin the same stakes.
If you think it's fair and good for the sport to keep the BC at one track, that's fine. But that was not the concept. As you said, no one cares about watching tracks not in their area nor where their favorite horses are not running. Or horses from South America, Germany etc where they've never heard of them or their connections. They'll watch their local college football games or the big name college football games.
With the BC, there's too much "ducking" and that's hurting tracks and racing.
Weather is a weak argument.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 13:33:25 GMT -5
"I hope the heavens open up and flood SA".
sounds like hating to me.
I am so un Cuomo its a joke.
that ca. racing your talking about just had more starters per race then your cherished Saratoga meet.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 22, 2013 13:45:27 GMT -5
Simply a response about weather. Weather is not what the BC location should be based on. You ignore other states and make this a NY vs CA thing. That's not it. Why not the other states mentioned if weather's so important to you?
Not getting into Del Mar vs Spa. Meaningless to this thread. Very small difference anyway and also meaningless as there were far fewer races to fill.
Look Wiz, I'd love to see more competitive racing in CA with horses shipping there. I'd love to see better quality fields. Right now it's just not happening. Yes - slots revenue may be the difference. Ca and NY racing are both in trouble. FL racing is shooting itself. Arlington wants to obliterate Hawthorne, there's hope in MD but Stronach will probably screw that up. Maybe the big future is LA, Charles Town and Los Al LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 14:55:25 GMT -5
well I personally don't think ca. needs shippers............once they are there. if they ever do get the slot money, they will have plenty of horses there........year round. that slot money is the only thing that is keeping ny afloat. if and when that advantage is taken away, ny racing will crumble. who would want to race in ny if they could race here for the same money?
I have said all along I don't think the BC should be here year round. have said that in every thread I have responded on. BUT weather should definitely be a factor. why shouldn't it?
and who's fault is it they carded too many races? their idiots for doing so. spreading themselves thin just to be greedy and run a few more races? bad job by the racing secretary.
and racing in ca. is better now then it was 3 years ago. its not great obviously, but since santa anita went back to dirt, it has improved there. now that the weak link is gone in Hollywood, I think it will continue to get better. thanks to the strong owners and trainer colonies here led by baffert, oneil, and hollendorfer........... real trainers!!
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Post by Evelyn on Sept 22, 2013 15:03:00 GMT -5
You keep making it CA vs NY! Yes - CA is better since SA went back to dirt but it still has a small pool of talented horses and trainers.
I completely disagree - Weather should not be a factor. As they call themselves a Championship, Champions can run on any surface, including mud and soft turf. George is right - A lot of Euros would love soft turf.
I think the BC is a mess! The last I looked, Arabians are not Thoroughbreds. That sums up, for me, that the BC is is trouble. Offering to pay expenses for no names from such racing giants as Germany? That also speaks volumes.
So as you advocate a change of venue, where would you suggest, besides CA?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 15:24:35 GMT -5
texas, Kentucky, florida...... all would be fine.
so they cant run a small race for Arabians, but you want them to bend over backwards to get the euros? did the queen pay for animal kingdoms shipping costs?
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Post by Evelyn on Sept 22, 2013 15:46:56 GMT -5
Who said anything about bending over backwards for Euros? However, Euros are among the best horses and one would think they belong in a supposed "World Championship"?
Are you condoning the BC paying shipping expenses?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 16:44:47 GMT -5
texas, Kentucky, florida...... all would be fine. so they cant run a small race for Arabians, but you want them to bend over backwards to get the euros? did the queen pay for animal kingdoms shipping costs? The "Euros" are thoroughbreds, the backbone of the Breeders' Cup. When the Breeders' Cup began, one of the selling points to racing fans was that it would attract the best horses from Europe. What business is there having Arabians running in a "Breeders' Cup" race? Why not mules as someone mentioned a day or two ago, maybe even goats, greyhounds, trotters and pacers? Up here in New England the Robinson Racing Pigs make the rounds of all the fairs. I'm sure they could make time in November to race at Santa Anita...
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Post by shooter29 on Sept 26, 2013 0:34:15 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The BC is a joke no matter where they have it! As for the weather situation, horse racing is and always has been an outdoor sporting event which means that at some point, it's players (horses and jockeys) will likely have to compete under less-than-ideal conditions. So, I've never understood that particular gripe. It is what it is.
My problems with the BC really has nothing to do with where it's held. It's simply the fact that it has strayed so far from it's original concept which was one day in which championships would be decided among the various divisions. Now what we have is a bloated two-day circus of mediocrity in which most of the races serve no purpose. I mean seriously, why do we need a BC race for sprinters on the turf? Or for milers on the dirt or for marathon runners? Why? These races are pointless in the grand scheme of year-end championships which again is what the BC was supposed to be about.
The whole thing just needs to go away and make way for a return to the good 'ol days of racing when top horses would have to compete against one another multiple times during the year in order to prove themselves as champions. The BC while originally a great concept has ultimately done more harm than good for the sport in the long run.
Just sayin.....
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afleettreet
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GOOOOOOOOOOOO SEATTLE SEAHAWKS! ALL THE WAY BABY!
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Post by afleettreet on Sept 26, 2013 19:05:11 GMT -5
HI All, If weather isn't or shouldn't be a factor I am sure George Washington would have loved that...as it sits, he DIED as a result of injuries sustained on one of the sloppiest tracks (at a BC) we have seen in years...is it at least a bit coincidental that the BC hightailed it back to CA where they didnt' have any injuries and didnt' have to cater to fans who were water logged and disgruntled...?? Just wondering.
And saying you hope the rains flood SA? I agree with Wiz...sounds like hating to me too...I GET that weather happens but honestly there is a reason why summer olympics are in summer and winter olympics are in winter and it is the weather....if the BC was routinely held at tracks deluged with rain like the track at Monmouth that day then I can GUARANTEE you that MANY big guns would either stay home or scratchn as ALOT of horses do NOT like slop. SA used to be horrid at drainage but LUCKILY they replaced the failing base when they went back to dirt and then after the silt settled they fixed it again and from I hear it is WAY better than it was ever before.
I am glad I'll be going to the BC...I get that all those who hate the concept or clamour for it to be what THEY want it are disgruntled because it isn't but it is still a DAMN FINE weekend of racing with internatioal contenders and attendees alike and I for one, wouldn't miss it for anything. It's NOT the event it is what you make of it while you are attending that makes all the difference and I cant speak for anyone but we go no matter where it is held and have the time of our lives for a brief few days. It's the company you keep and the fun yuo have along the ay that make it priceless and if you're lucky you'll see a few of your favorite horses up close and hopefully they win. Either way it is what you MAKE of the experience that FAR TRUMPS the event itself and we make the very most of it every year and wouldn't change a thing.
I say do away with the Eclipse awards at year's end...after all I would MUCH rather spend two days watchign a BC full of horses than sit there for hours watching a bunch of millionaires accept overrated awards in their tuxedos (to NO benefit of the horses whatsoever as they could care less about some golden trophy or plaque but they love running)! Maybe then the BC really would decide year's end honors but having a year's end championship weekend just a few short weeks before a year's end awards ceremony based on two completely separte concepts of what defines a champion is ridiculous and they both conflict with the other. Makes NO difference where the BC runs whatsoevere because peopel WILL still go and likely bring a few friends who have never been to a horse race in their lives. I see it every year and now outr group (from all over the world) is in it's 6th annual return trip and we wouldn't change a thing.
Sorry you guys think it sucks so bad...my advice to all those who feel that way is actually make the trip and experience for yourselves what a fabulous and glorious weekend it really is. I promise it is FAR better than any broadcast ot what you see on TV...FAR BETTER! And that's my story and I am sticking to it! LOL!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 22:28:17 GMT -5
I've been to three of them, back when it still was the "Breeders' Cup" - at Aqueduct*, Belmont Park and Churchill Downs. I've also passed up opportunities to see others, at Belmont Park (3), Monmouth Park and Woodbine. It's just passe now. At this point I'd rather go to a Haskell Day, Belmont Stakes Day, or Queen's Plate Day. *to give everyone an idea of how out of touch the Breeders' Cup organization is, on their website they refer to the second event as being held at "Aqueduct Park"!!! That was never that track's name.... Wouldn't you think they would know that?
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 26, 2013 22:35:40 GMT -5
Afleet - Westerners should love it. It's no longer a National Event. It's completely West Coast biased. Although horses from elsewhere do well - IF they show up.
Take a horse like Ben's Cat. He deserves a shot in the BC. He'd be given it if the race wasn't 3000 miles away for 3 years in a row. It's a lot of expense for a smaller stable. Why bother when they can earn big bucks close to home?
The point is it the BC is NOT what it WAS. It is NOT what it was designed to be. It does NOT draw the best Worldwide horses. It is NOT a World Championship.
You assume we've never been? We've been to 4 - 2 at Belmont, Monmouth and Churchill. Doubtful we'll go again.
Breakdowns happen. Nothing was more tragic than having Go For Wand breakdown in front of everyone. I don't recall the track being blamed for George W's breakdown. This may be the real reason - From ESPN "George Washington wasn't even supposed to race anymore. He was retired at the end of last year with plans to go to stud, but was found to be infertile and put back into training." Greedy connections? Health problems? The public will never know. It was sloppy. Some horses love the slop. Most Euros love soft turf. And all had the option to scratch if their connections felt the track was unsafe.
2 days is 1 day too many. 1 location is WRONG. Let the event be held but change it's name. It is NOT what the Breeders Cup was meant to be. The national audience of casual fans doesn't care any more because it's become a CA event, not a national one.
Agree that the Eclipses are completely meaningless.
Today's world - Sports are all about $, not sport.
All that being said, hope you personally have a great time!
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 27, 2013 12:16:46 GMT -5
don't think hoping for rain is based on hate - just the point that rain happens! that's a poor excuse - calis act like there's 10 feet of snow in november in the east - actually late oct/early nov has some great weather - cooler, better ofr horses - not freezing - sure - snow could happen just like it could rain in cali - it's a given that hellmar (that synth may be the worst in the world) is getting the bc next - yawn wonder how football fans would like having the super bowl in one place every year? ditto the baseball all star game - agree BC has become a more local event than national - also, not very "international" - how desperate are they to have win and you're in in So Am AND pay expenses. yet, they couldn't pay for ben? LOL it's surely not helping to build a fan base or get new fans - the TC will always be more important to the general public than this monstrosity - if the Turf Triple Crown was brought back, I think it would get higher TV ratings too why, when something has been failing and the numbers dropping the past few years does a corporation continue doing the same thing? because they do what they want to make their profit - the current idiots running the BC could care less about thoroughbreds or thoro racing - how many more have to resign from the whacked, corrupt BC Board before they "get it"? nope - the BC HAS GOT TO GO BYE BYE! it's simply no longer "The Breeders Cup" - may watch the ladies race on Friday - the rest of Fri? yawn wiz - when was the last time you were in NY in early Nov? LOL what a dumb argument - ditto the cards before the BC Day - yeah - like SA will have fabulous cards on Wed and Thurs before BC days? LOL think you need to read the original BC concept ftr - NY turned the BC down because it was a bad deal and NY didn't need it - CA needs it - you are turning this into NY vs CA - why not Arlington? Laurel? GS? Fairgrounds? Hell - just move it to Chile or use Aksarben Ca doesn't need shippers? that's just too funny! nope - keep those fields where baffert has 3 of 5-6 horses entered so the cali protected golden boy can keep up his win % LOL not to worry - no one wants to ship for meager purse $ to a state where the locals are protected by the racing board i like the idea of keeping the event to boost cali racing - just call it something else
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 27, 2013 12:32:06 GMT -5
here's a thought - ask the mosses to ship Zen to SA for an appearance on Friday - that way people will WANT to go - she is cali's star - she will get people in the seats (rather than doling out a gazillion free tickets so it doesn't look bad on tv - not that many are watching anyway)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 13:47:25 GMT -5
here's a thought - ask the mosses to ship Zen to SA for an appearance on Friday - that way people will WANT to go - she is cali's star - she will get people in the seats (rather than doling out a gazillion free tickets so it doesn't look bad on tv - not that many are watching anyway) Better yet - do that on Saturday when the run the "Zenyatta" Stakes (i.e., the Lady's Secret, who I thought was overall a much better horse - she shipped coast to coast several times as well as north to south, to win almost everywhere in the US, but that opens old wounds.........)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 16:18:45 GMT -5
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE SUPER BOWL WAS PLAYED ANYWHERE THAT WASNT IN CALI, FLORIDA, OR A DOME? WEATHER IS DEFINATELY A FACTOR IN THAT DECISION AS WELL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 16:26:51 GMT -5
LAST TIME I WAS N NY WAS ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO. WENT THERE WITH MY PARENTS AND IT RAINED EVERYDAY WE WERE THERE. THEY LOST OUR RESERVATIONS AT THE HOTEL, THE AIRPORT WAS CLOSED DOWN DUE TO FLOODING AND PEOPLE WERE BREAKING INTO PHONE BOOTHS TO STEAL MONEY FOR THE VENDING MACHINES. ALSO HAD TO STEP OVER PEOPLE WHO WERE SLEEPING IN THE HALLWAYS OF THE HOTELS AND AIRPORT BECAUSE THERE WERE NO MORE AVAILABLE ROOMS IN THE CITY. GREAT PLACE TO VISIT.
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