lt1
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Post by lt1 on Sept 1, 2013 13:35:12 GMT -5
Wiz is right no matter who makes the claim it has to be investigated. I also think George has a point that if this unfounded then a fine and or suspension is called for.
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 1, 2013 18:14:01 GMT -5
of course it has to be investigated – think people would take it more seriously if the complaint was from pletcher or shug or a more reputable trainer – sort of like internet forums where the nutcases are never taken seriously!
dunno chall – never saw his right hand touch the horse in the stretch - he was behind and whipping left handed but WTC was going inwards (even with left hand whip) not forward - wouldn’t a jolt cause him to go to the right, not the left? then saez guides WTC outside and keeps both hands on the reins urging him – do they use the supposed zapper on the neck? don’t think so
pay no attention to wiz’s Lukas comments (wiz – never call out someone else for being a “hater” please lol) - with a very few exceptions, no trainer is pristine – anyone know how many violations guillot has racked up? agree he should be fined - they fine for jockey, owner, trainer “frivolous” claims in races – right? well – in MD anyway – don’t know if other tracks do that but they should
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Post by Challedon on Sept 1, 2013 18:23:55 GMT -5
you generally buzz the horse on the neck
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 1, 2013 18:35:51 GMT -5
Would buzzing the neck cause the horse to veer to the left even though he was whipping (or buzzing) left handed?
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Post by Challedon on Sept 1, 2013 18:40:24 GMT -5
I don't know how a horse reacts to being buzzed. I've never seen one in action that I knew was being buzzed.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 1, 2013 18:48:45 GMT -5
Interesting article from Aussie
Jigger: the training device that dare not speak its name The Age AU By Andrew Eddy
The use of electronic devices to urge horses to run faster is considered one of horse racing's most serious crimes. But, it remains a technique that some trainers swear by, although none will admit to.
The massive penalties handed out this week to trainer Paul Preusker (four years disqualification) and jockey Holly McKechnie (three years) have meant few in racing are willing to talk of the unsavoury practice of inducing a sluggish horse to try harder by hitting it with an electronic shock down the neck.
None would go on the record — even those now retired — but off the record a number of trainers and jockeys offered an anecdote or two about the range of battery devices that have been used for many decades and can come in all shapes and sizes.
There was the story of a well-known jockey in the 1970s who supposedly paid a track worker to help out with a sting. The jockey used a "jigger" to great effect in a big-race win and then, pretending to be exhausted, slipped off the horse after the line at a designated spot where he was greeted by the track worker, who took the device from the jockey.
Another yarn surrounded a more advanced use of a jigger. An electronic device was wired up to the saddle to give electric shocks to the horse on both flanks but the plan went horribly wrong when rain came before the race and the water created havoc with the device and sporadic shocks were sent through the horse before, during and after the race.
Instead of an electronic device, some riders have simply used a nail to jab into the horse's neck during a race. As the horse was used to getting electronic shocks via a jigger in trackwork, it would respond immediately when it felt the nail, thinking an electric shock would follow.
After use, the nail would be dropped by the jockey as there is nothing sinister about a nail that is used to shoe a horse being found on a racetrack.
So rife was the use of jiggers before tighter screening measures were introduced that many older trainers remember the days when the devices would be sold out of the trunk of a car on racedays.
Because they can be detected much more easily on race day, jiggers are generally only used in trackwork and only on horses who trainers consider are "bludging". Usually, they are hit in the neck with the device and the hit is accompanied by a loud scream in the sand roll so the horses associate the scream with an electric shock. Later, the device in conjunction with the scream would be used again when the horse galloped.
Come raceday, when the horse is required for an extra effort, the rider shouts and, expecting an electronic shock, the horse is intimidated into running as fast as it can for as long as it can.
Although few trainers or jockeys have been convicted of using a battery or jigger on a racehorse, jockeys Danny Brereton and Jim Cassidy have both been suspended for a month in the past decade for jabbing the butt of their whips into a horse's neck.
When Cassidy was given his four weeks' suspension after riding Filante in the 1998 Chipping Norton Stakes, Sydney's chief steward, Ray Murrihy, noted: "The connotation is a jigger could have been used at trackwork and you're (Cassidy) replicating the actions."
One noted trainer said the recent publicity about jiggers, via the Preusker case, combined with the competitiveness among the ranks of horse trainers, meant that few trainers on public training tracks would dare to use the device.
"You'd be given up (to officials) in a flash by someone wanting your business," he said. "It's no longer good business practice."
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 1, 2013 18:55:13 GMT -5
Remember the fuss when Jose Santos presumably was using a battery in the Kentucky Derby when Funny won? Who (other than Billy Patin, that is) would be stupid enough to do something like that in a huge race that everyone is watching? NY Daily News yesterday Travers followup: Jockey Luis Saez is accused of carrying an electronic device The device, known as a battery, is carried in a jockey’s hand and emits an electric charge, which allegedly makes a horse run faster. By Jerry Bossert SARATOGA SPRINGS — The Travers isn’t over with yet. Trainer Eric Guillot has filed a complaint with the New York State Gaming Commission, alleging that jockey Luis Saez carried an electronic device, while winning the Aug. 24 race aboard Will Take Charge, beating Guillot’s horse, Moreno, by a nose. “We are reviewing the complaint,” said commission spokesman Lee Park, who acknowledged that it will seek the help from video analysis experts from the New York State Police. Guillot’s brother, Chip, first saw the alleged device when looking at replays of the race and informed Eric, who then filed the complaint. The device, known as a battery, is carried in a jockey’s hand and emits an electric charge, which allegedly makes a horse run faster. “The gaming commission is working on it,” said the 51-year-old Guillot. “I brought them the video. I showed it to 100 people, ain’t been one person to deny it yet. You see a blurry, black device go from the right hand to the left hand and then he drops it.” Lukas, who saddled his third career Travers winner when Will Take Charge prevailed, denied the accusations and felt bad for Saez. “He’s a good kid and he didn’t do anything wrong,” said Lukas, who turns 78 on Monday. “It sounds like he’s (Guillot) having trouble losing. It bothers me for the industry. It doesn’t bother me because the kid didn’t do anything wrong. I didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just unfortunate to have these things crop up in thoroughbred racing.” The 21-year-old Saez wouldn’t comment, but his agent Richard DePass did. “What makes Eric Guillot an expert on racing?” DePass asked. “We’re going to fight this vigorously. This kid doesn’t drink, doesn’t smoke, doesn’t go anywhere. He has two kids and is always with them. This guy is making an accusation against the nicest kid in America. He doesn’t even curse. I got a few pictures and you see nothing with his left hand wide open. It’s the same thing when they accused (jockey) Jose Santos (in the 2003 Kentucky Derby aboard Funny Cide).He’s slandering this kid.”
Now retired, Jose Santos watched the Travers from home in Florida.“I really didn’t see anything, and if you ask me, it’s a cheap excuse,” he said. “It’s a very strong accusation.” Santos won a substantial lawsuit against the Miami Herald, which accused him of carrying a buzzer in the Derby, when it was just a shadow that disappeared once the photo was enlarged. “It is embarrassing to be accused,” Santos said. “I know that there have been some guys who have been caught. You have to be stupid to use it in a big race like that. You have to be stupid to use it in any kind of race.”
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 1, 2013 20:30:20 GMT -5
thanks chall and jon - are they used for training here? loved the aussie article - like "jigger" lol
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Post by Challedon on Sept 1, 2013 20:34:04 GMT -5
they're out there during training hours
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Post by Challedon on Sept 1, 2013 20:41:20 GMT -5
this is a post from another site I sometime take a look at...make of it what you will :
I have watched the video 200+ times now and HAVE BETTER computer software than you (yes, ALL OF YOU) as I own a media company...We're using High Def 1080 dpi monitors, using MAC computers and business grade video editing software that can be stopped instantly, or played frame-by-frame, while remaining in High-Def)
YOU MAKE THE CALL:
4:25 time stamp- There is NO QUESTION that at 4:25 (time stamp on the above video race replay) he stands and switches an item from one hand to the other! I can''t tell what the object is, if it's a battery or not, but for SURE this object is INDEPENDENT of the reigns which can be seen 100% clearly as a separate object at the same time the object is moved. It appears that the object has at least 1 straight edge (like a rectangle or square) as his hand folds around a straight edge.
4:17 time stamp - At 4:17 during the stretch run he stops whipping with his left hand, then lowers into a hand ride. At that time his hand disappears behind the horse's head and front quarters. The horse appears to switch leads while "jumping upwards" and accelerates past leaders
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on Sept 1, 2013 21:53:11 GMT -5
Chall did they post the video and did you see it or just this statement. I'm sure the authorities will want to see it if they don't already have it.
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Post by Challedon on Sept 1, 2013 22:00:33 GMT -5
he didn't post the hi-def frame by frame stuff he claims he has
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 0:23:28 GMT -5
CAIT ONE SECOND YOU AGREE IT HAS TO BE INVESTIGATED, AND THEN THE NEXT YOU SAY THE GUY SHOULD BE FINED FOR MAKING A FRIVOLOUS CLAIM. WHICH IS IT? HOW IS IT FRIVOLOUS IF SO MANY PEOPLE AGREE THERE IS A DEFINATE POSSIBILITY IT HAPPENED AFTER WATCHING THE REPLAY? I AGREE AND HAVE SAID SO THAT GUILLOT IS AN IDIOT, BUT HIS PAST SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE OR WHETHER THIS IS A FRIVOLOUS CLAIM. YOU SAY PAY NO ATTENTION TO MY COMMENTS AS I AM A HATER, BUT ALL OF MY REASONS FOR HATING LUKAS ARE VALID. IF YOU AND OTHERS WISH TO FORGIVE THEM OR SWEEP THEM UNDER THE RUG BECAUSE HE IS NOW OLDER, THAT IS UP TO YOU. BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO LETS YOUR EMOTIONS BE THE JUDGE OF WHETHER YOU LIKE SOMEONE OR RESPECT THEM. I BASED IT OFF OF FACTS AND PAST PERFORMANCES. THE GUY HAS HAD A BAD REPUTATION FOR 30 YEARS AND EVERYTHING I POINT OUT ABOUT HIM ARE FACTS, FROM HIS HISTORY OF BREAKING DOWN HORSES AND BANKRUPTING OWNERS TO HIS CURRENT WINNING PERCENTAGES. WHY DO YOU DEFEND HIM? IN FACT, WHY DO YOU PRAISE PIMLICO, CALDER AND TIMONIUM BUT DUMP ON DEL MAR AND GULFSTREAM? FOR PERSONAL REASONS, THAT IS WHY.
AS FAR AS THE BUZZER GOES, I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW BEING USED ON QUARTER HORSES. THEY ARE USUALLY USED ON THE NECK OF A HORSE WHILE UNDER A HARD HAND SHOVE WITH BOTH HANDS ON THE REINS AND EVEN GRAPING THE HORSES MANE. THIS IS FOR BALANCE AND SAFETY BECAUSE WHEN THE HORSE GETS BUZZED THEY ACTUALL WILL "JUMP" FORWARD, OR TO A CERTAIN DIRECTION IF NOT BEING POINTED STRAIGHT. I WAS AT LOS AL ONE NIGHT WHEN THEY CAUGHT JERRY YOAKUM RED HANDED IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE WITH ONE. I WAS SITTING ON THE MAIN LEVEL OF THE GRANDSTAND BY THE BACK STAIRWELL AND ABOUT 5 MINUTES AFTER THE RACE AND THE WINNERS CIRCLE PICTURES, THE REAR DOORS TO THE JOCKEYS ROOM COME FLYING OPEN AND OUT COMES YOAKUM IN HANDCUFFS, BEING ESCORTED BY 3 COPS, 2 SECURITY GUARDS AND A COUPLE OF TRACK OFFICIALS. THEY WENT RIGHT BY WHERE WE WERE SITTING, DOWN THE STAIRWELL, AND OUT THE GATE. HE WAS RULED OFF THE TRACK IMMEDIATELY. EDDIE GARCIA WAS ALWAYS FAMOUS FOR USING THE BUZZER ALSO, ALTHOUGH I DONT KNOW IF THEY EVER CAUGHT HIM DURING A RACE. I DO KNOW THIS, I HAVE WALKED DOWN THE STREET DIRECTLY BEHIND LOS ALAMITOS ( I THINK IT WAS CERRITOS AVE) AND HAVE SEEN BATTERIES THAT HAVE BEEN DISCARDED BY JOCKEYS AFTER RACES LITTERED IN THE BUSHES THERE.
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 2, 2013 12:18:16 GMT -5
allow me to clarfy Wiz since you obviously misunderstood - IF NOTHING is proven then i believe, as someone else said, guillot should be fined – I was responding to that post without quoting it - IF there's proof then saez is gone -
now - MY rant in response - (and ain’t it great that good friends can have differing opinions!)
understand your thoughts re Lukas- never said he was a saint but he has mellowed - what pisses me off is how you constantly nail the guy for stuff 20-30 years ago - insisting all of his rich owners were stupid and he had some sort of spell over them - do you think he just wanted to take their $ and not win? was he the only trainer who took advantage of lasix being made legal in the 80’s? no and no
yet - TODAY - you totally defend the trainer who has ruined more 3 yr olds than anyone else - who has SEVEN mysterious deaths (genetic heart failure in babies? - either he didn't do his homework when he started training them - genetic is the key word - or something caused those heart problems) - who keeps using an excuse of "virus" for horses that become sick although no vet can diagnose a "virus" - who can't get ONE fellow trainer to speak in his defense
if you're going to trash one trainer and then put on blinders for another who is doing very similar things, that's unfair - imo baffert used lukas as a role model and followed right in his footsteps - then took it to a new high - he might be the nicest guy in the world but he's not "nice" to his horses - they are $ machines, not animals - i agree with you that paynter should have been retired – but he wholeheartedly endorsed his return - does he need the $ that badly? don’t the zayats respect his opinion? are they of the same ilk as lukas’ “stupid” owners?
he's not alone - most trainers these days are the same - it's all about $ - thoroughbreds have become business investments - people that love horses and think horse racing is a sport are few and far between (which is why someone like lopresti is special) that’s one reason the sport is failing - $ dictates - as soon as there’s enough black type to get stud fees, horses are retired – if it wasn’t in my blood and I didn’t naively hang on to the hope things wills change, if i didn’t live in area and personally know a lot of smaller outfits that have made racing their life for generations and are banding together to try to make changes happen, i’d find today’s horseracing just another corrupt big business “sport” - the difference is humans in other sports make their own choices - horses don’t get to do that
yes – there are some who still work the old fashioned way but IF it’s their livelihood they do what they have to do to stay competitive - how depressing was it that shug said orb would have raced as a 3 yr old without lasix (and I firmly believe lasix is a performance enhancer and has always been, is and always will be the “cover-up drug”) but he needed to “play on an equal field” or something like that
i also understand those who’s livelihood is betting income have a totally different view of the “game” - it’s always been that way - and if they’re honest, they factor the bs into their handicapping - when o’neill was starting out, one of the best bets was a claim that was first time out for him and on lasix
all I ask is that you apply the standards by which you “measure” lukas to all
as to the incident, could be true – if it is it’s too bad the race wasn’t in cali where the chrb would surely bury it because it will be devastating for the sport - will the public ever know the truth? – maybe since the ny gov is out to nail horseracing - but then again the public never knew the truth surrounding iha’s belmont – ain’t it a shame that current long time fans have become so jaded? the industry can blame themselves for that
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 16:50:50 GMT -5
WHEN AND WHERE DID I SAY PAYNTER SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED? I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. ONE THING I HAVE NOTICED AROUND HERE IS THAT IF ANY HORSE, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT IS A FAVORITE OF ANYONE, DOENT WIN EVERY RACE, OR GOES OUT OF FORM, SUDDENLY THE OWNERS AND TRAINER START GETTING BLASTED FOR ABUSING HIM OR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIM. BUT YET THESE SAME PEOPLE ALSO THINK THAT ONCE YOUR AND OWNER YOU SOMEHOW BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS HORSE FOR THE REST OF ITS LIFE. THIS IS A BUSSINESS PEOPLE. THE OWNERS AND TRAINERS ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY. YES, THEY SHOULD DO SO WITHOUT THE SAKE OF ILLEGAL DRUGS OR OVER RUNNING A HORSE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THE HORSE SHOULD BE RETIRED. LUKAS'S OWNERS? MAYBE NOT IDIOTS, BUT DEFINATELY NIEVE AS TO WHAT THEY WOULD GET AS A RETURN ON THE MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS THAT THEY WERE INVESTING. AND MY MAIN POINT TO THAT WAS NOT NECESSARILY HOW HE BUSTED THE OWNERS, BUT MORE HOW HE ISNT MUCH OF A TRAINER. WHEN WAS THAT LAST TIME IF EVER, LUKAS HAD A SUCCESS STORY WITH A HORSE THAT DIDNT COST AT LEAST A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS? YOU GIVE ANYONE THAT TYPE OF MONEY TO SPEND AT AUCTIONS AND THEY ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH GOOD HORSES. IM SURE BOB BENDS THE RULES AS WELL, BUT THE FACT IS, IF IT WERENT FOR ME, NO ONE ELSE WOULD EVER SAY A WORD ABOUT LUKAS'S PAST ON HERE, BUT EVERY SINGLE DAY THERE WOULD BE A SMART ASSED COMMENT ABOUT BOB. I AM AT THE VERY LEAST, JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD. I DONT KNOW WHO NEEDS WHAT, BUT IM PRETTY SURE BAFFERTS ROI ON PURCHASE PRICE TO EARNING IS A LOT BETTER THEN LUKAS'S .
it's all about $ - thoroughbreds have become business investments - people that love horses and think horse racing is a sport are few and far between (which is why someone like lopresti is special) that’s one reason the sport is failing - $ dictates - as soon as there’s enough black type to get stud fees, horses are retired.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BUT YET YOU JUST SAID PAYNTER SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED, WHEN HE IS NOW AS HEALTHY AS AN OX. WHICH ONE IS IT? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT OR WANT TO ACCEPT IT, HORSES ARE MACHINES TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. NO THEY DONT GET TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES. THAT IS THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, AND IF YOU THINK THEY WERE MAKING THEIR OWN CHOICES 50 YEARS AGO, YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN.
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 4, 2013 17:05:04 GMT -5
wiz - wth? calm down lol maybe it wasn't you re paynter retiring - will look when i have time
you keep bringing up crap from 20-30 years ago about lukas - the stuff about baffert is recent - like 7 deaths and mysterious illnesses - big difference
don't disagree with that neither is a lopresti or a motion or an attfield
think you'd lose on the roi with the horses, unless ou just took the last few years because purchase prices were a lot lower 20-30 years ago
and i REALLY disagree with you re this - they are NOT machines - they are living, breathing, feeling animals
once again the difference of opinion between a small time former owner and a big gambler
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 17:37:06 GMT -5
purses were smaller too. you didn't get to be the all time leading money earner running one year and maybe winning a bonus which is possible these days. I don't think there were many 10 million dollar races back then. and purchase prices weren't that much lower. were talking about the sheik years and the green monkeys and snaffi dancers I beoieve was his name. lots of money being thrown around back then. thay may not be a machine to you, but that is because you are not a relevant owner or trainer. its easy to judge someone and their financial needs until you have walked in their shoes. sorry, but if I invest a million dollars in a horse, that horse has immediately become an investment and a machine, not an animal or pet.
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cait
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Post by cait on Sept 4, 2013 20:35:56 GMT -5
we agree on 1 thing - no million dollar horses here lol but that’s about it – however i take issue with your use of “relevant” - when our horses were running, think we were at least to those who were watching and betting – perhaps i misunderstood so please define “relevant owner” - someone like reddam? those that invest in living, breathing animals like stock certificates and treat them as “machines”? they are the leaders laying out the method to be a thoro owner? damn - i hope not - they’re not even smart investors – they are simply looking for a quick buck - even if i had billions, i would NEVER “walk in their shoes”
and that my friend is why racing’s in trouble – too many “investors” – not enough sportsmen or those that can afford to indulge in a sport they enjoy and don’t care if they lose some $ - too much need to get paid back quickly for the “investment” with the credo to keep those machines running and well “oiled” - use w/e’s available to ensure they bring home $, even if they drop dead of a drug induced heart attack or break their legs because of too much bute (or w/e is used to escape testing these days btw bute’s not a bad drug – it just doesn’t belong in a horse that’s training or racing)
how many 10 million dollar races are there today? for someone who shrieks at others for mentioning foreign racing, i was talking about US racing, not sheiks - general sales, not one or two ridiculous ones
you’re trying to make it sound like i (and others) have praised coach as the world’s best trainer - no one has done that - your comments about him are far worse than anything written about baffert - and there have been no facts or stats presented - it IS a fact that the baffert stable had 7 deaths in a very short time period and several mysterious illnesses - so what do you think caused all those “viruses”? n/m it doesn’t matter - i accept that you don’t like lukas so please accept that i don’t like baffert - i repeat, even if had the high priced horses, i wouldn’t use either one as a trainer
and now i’m bowing out of this discussion - i do with all serious gamblers who’s income is based on gambling winnings and those who consider thoros only as investments - but please don’t try to paint me as a bimbo - i was always well aware of racing’s risks for an owner, but that didn’t preclude me from loving my horses and having a trainer who i trusted implicitly to do right by the animal - for example, if the horse was not up to running, no dope to make him feel and act as tho’ he was - i admit i was lucky in that both for my dad and myself, horses were not a livliehood - but even if i had the million, i seriously doubt i would buy a thoro with it - it’s why i so highly respect small operations (and a few large ones) that do make their living breeding, raising and racing horses while treating their animals as living breathing beings, not machines
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 23:51:25 GMT -5
how many horses do you own right now? zero if im correct? so you are not a relevant owner. its also easy to tell someone how, or what they should invest their money in when your not the one responsible for it. yes reddam is a relevant owner. he's an idiot also who blindly throws his money away on overpriced horses and who doesn't listen to the people in his employ who know more then he does, but he is still a relevant owner. like I said, this is a business. this is racing, not for show horses. the "gorgeous grey" aint worth a dollar if he cant run. see how far you get in this game paying half a million for horses because they are beautiful who end up winning a md. race and an allowance and getting distanced everytime he faces real competition. and yes he still may end up being ok, but heasnt shown it yet. what you want cait is for someone to invent a time machine and take racing back 30 years. so do I. but that isn't going to happen. and dragging our feet and complaining about where were at as a sport is not going to help. racing sold its soul the day they approved simulcasting, Lasix, and then on track casinos to top it off. it is too late to go back now. there is no going back. it is too big. at this point you ride it as far as it goes and then you put it down. may not be what you want to hear but it is the truth. the money is too big for people to just walk away from and stop doing what they are doing. you are exactly right when you say there aren't enough sportsmen who can just throw away their money and treat it as pure sport with out needing a return on their investment. have you looked at the economy over the last 15-20 years? do you think this sport can survive what it would take to cleanse itself of all these drugs? basically generations of horses who have used it or are by sires who have used it would have to have it bred out of them to get back to where it was. how many owners are going to throw away their investments knowing this? sales prices will plummet. purses will plummet. owners will leave, trainers and jockeys will go broke. and that's IF you could ever get anyone to even agree to give it a shot. my comments are worse about coach because he is worse then baffert. period. sorry you cant see that by your hatred towards bob and his family. and if you say you don't hate them, well you have a funny way of showing it. do you know what the definition of mysterious is? mystery= unproven. its great that you wouldn't use either one. at least your half right. no one is saying your a bimbo, however I do think that you feel as if everyone should take everything that happens in this sport as emotionally as you do. as I have said, this is a business first and foremost for about 90% of the people involved in it. a sport secondary. you are in the minority if you feel the opposite. and that is your right, but don't be shocked when things don't change anytime soon........ and its not just California like you would like people to believe.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 5, 2013 0:18:48 GMT -5
I'm also interested in the definition of relevant owner. By using Reddam as an example, is that because he owns horses racing now? Because he spends a lot on horses, is he more relevant than Mr XXX who owns a few claimers?
Don't think mystery means unproven. However, Baffert himself said the horses had viruses and horses did die. That's no mystery. That's fact. The cause is the mystery. That's what people want to know. What was the cause? I can understand if one horse becomes sick and there's no explanation, but not several from the same barn. Virus is a broad diagnosis.
Wiz - you have blinkers on also IMO Have you ever owned horses? As far as the future of racing, some of what you say may be true, some is conjecture. No one knows what the future holds. All we know is right now, it's not looking good. I don't know that drug usage is passed down from breeding. What is wrong is high priced studs being booked because of their fame/record but they may not have achieved their fame/record without drug usage. Will leave that to pedigree experts.
I also think Cait has gone along with all of the teasing about the gray but, come on, she knows so that was a cheap shot.
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