Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 12, 2013 23:18:15 GMT -5
Hate seeing this. She's a really nice filly. If she was going to run at Saratoga, why not have shipped her there rather than working out on that pos surface?
Midnight Lucky out for year By Jay Privman DRF DEL MAR, Calif. - Midnight Lucky, winner of the Grade 1 Acorn at Belmont Park earlier this year, will not race again as a 3-year-old owing to bone bruising, her trainer, Bob Baffert, said Monday morning.
“She got jammed up, wasn’t moving right,” Baffert said.
Midnight Lucky had been scheduled to run in a pair of Grade 1 sprint stakes at Saratoga this summer – the Prioress and the Test – but she skipped the Prioress with what Baffert originally believed was merely a foot bruise following a half-mile work in 46 seconds at Del Mar on July 21. She has not worked since.
“She’s going to need 90 days off,” Baffert said. “She’s back up at Hollywood Park now, but she’ll get turned out. She’ll miss the rest of the year.”
Midnight Lucky has won three times in four starts, her lone loss coming in the Kentucky Oaks.
Another fleet 3-year-old filly of Baffert’s, Socialbug, has just returned to light training after taking ill following a powerful debut win against maidens at Del Mar on July 21. Socialbug, a daughter of Curlin, is a half-sister to Midnight Lute, the sire of Midnight Lucky.
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Post by Evelyn on Aug 13, 2013 8:31:40 GMT -5
As usual, Baffert has another to take her place. I agree about working on the Del Mar surface. Since the publicity, they've done a great job keeping stats hushed up. Does anyone know where to find the info? The JC stats are only thru last year.
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cait
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Post by cait on Aug 13, 2013 16:31:06 GMT -5
really loved this filly - despite her trainer
exactly jon - why wasn't she training at the spa if she was going to run there?
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 13, 2013 16:38:05 GMT -5
SO IF ORB DECIDED TO RUN IN THE PACIFIC CLASSIC, DOES THAT MEAN HIS WORKOUTS LEADING UP TO IT SHOULD ALL BE AT DEL MAR INSTEAD OF BELMONT WHERE HIS TRAINER IS BASED? SHE IS IN A WEST COAST TRAINERS BARN. OF COURSE SHE IS GOING TO TRAIN UP TO THE RACE ON HER HOME CIRCUIT. THAT IS AN OBVIOUS ANSWER.
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cait
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Post by cait on Aug 13, 2013 19:12:49 GMT -5
hey grumpy - bobby has other horses at the spa, right? and i do believe in a workout over the surface - especially before a big race - the exception being dully working at Churchill (smart!) - that camp will prolly hold their breath until the race is over - i will never understand why they aren't going in the Arl Million - because he won te race last year? orb would never ever run on that surface so that's a bad example - has shug run any at del mar in the last 3-4 yrs?
make up your mind dear - thought oxbow was injured because coach ruined him, pushed him too hard blah blah blah - now it's because of the track? we all know breakdowns and fatalities happen everywhere - but of the all the synth tracks, delmar's is the worst - someone said the turf is also bad - dunno - do know i was shocked at the # of soft tissue injuries the last few years at delmar - and i don't want to think what happened to the majority of those hores
i'm glad delmar's doing well- good for racing - but the track imo is mismanaged - it's all about parties and dumb promos - not so much about the racing - it's time for new blood running things there!
finally - prove me wrong about the surface - are you familiar with the last few years stats?
are you betting delmar? i'm not
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 13, 2013 20:32:07 GMT -5
NO I DONT BET ANY SYNTHETIC TRACKS. ANYWHERE.
I KNOW FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS THEY HAVE HAD MORE THEN THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF BREAKDOWNS, BUT TRUTHFULLY THAT COULD BE AN ABBERRATION AS IT IS REALLY NOT ENOUGH OF A TEST SAMPLE TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT. I KNOW THE NUBER IS DOWN THIS YEAR. BUT IM NOT SAYING IT ISNT A BAD SURFACE. THAT IS THE ONE ARGUEMENT YOU ARE NOT GETTING FROM ME.
THE OXBOW COMMENT IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU CAN UNFAIRLY BLAME AND LABEL A SURFACE ON ONE EXAMPLE IF IT FITS YOUR NEEDS. HOW DO YOU KNOW SHE WOULDNT HAVE GOTTEN INJURED HAD SHE BEEN AT ANOTHER TRACK? DO YOU PEOPLE REALLY THINK THAT BAFFERT, ONEIL, AND WHOEVER ELSE YOU WANT TO VILLIFY ON A WHIM AS THE FLAVOR OF THE MONTH BAD GUY WANTS TO SEE THESE HORSES BREAK DOWN? EVEN IF THEY DIDNT CARE ABOUT THEM, WHICH I BELIEVE THEY DO, THEY ARE MILLION DOLLAR ANIMALS. EVERYTIME ONE BREAKS DOWN THEY LOSE MONEY, ESPECIALLY THE OWNERS.
MISMANAGED? WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARENT ALL WALKING AROUND IN GOOFY ASS HATS ACTING LIKE ITS TIME FOR TEA AND CRUMPETS? THIS IS 2013. YOU EITHER GO FOR THE BIG BETTORS OR YOU DO AS THEY ARE DOING AND GO FOR THE YOUNG CROWD. WHAT TYPE OF NEW BLOOD WOULD YOU SUGGEST? THEY ARE GETTING THE NEW BLOOD FANS FROM THESE DUMB PROMOS AND PARTIES. ISNT THAT WHAT EVERYONE WANTS? AND YES, THEY ARE GETTING THE FANS, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. OUTSIDE OF SARATOGA, THEY ARE STILL DOING BETTER THEN ANYWHERE ELSE. FORTUNATELY FOR THEM THEY DONT HAVE TO RELY ON YOUR DOLLARS I GUESS. I WOULD SAY THE THINGS YOU SUGGEST HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH NEW BLOOD AND MORE ABOUT TRADITION AND OLD SCHOOL WAYS. I LAUGH WHEN YOU SAY MISMANAGED AS THEY HAVE FAR LESS DATES, FAR LESS TRADITION, AND FAR LESS LOCAL TRAFFIC AS SANTA ANITA DOES, YET SOMEHOW ARE GETTING MUCH BETTER NUMBERS. YET THEY ARE MISMANAGED? IF ANYTHING THEY HAVE DONE A MIRACULOUS JOB THERE OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS MAKING THEMSELVES THE ONLY TRACK IN CA. THAT HASNT DECLINED SUBSTANTIALLYDUE TO THE AholeS IN OFFICE IN THIS STATE.
WHETHER ORB WOULD RUN HERE OR NOT IS NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS JUST BECAUSE A HORSE DOESNT HAVE A LOCAL WORKOUT BEFORE A RACE IS NOT UNUSUAL. TRAINERS DO IT ALL THE TIME. SHIP IN THE DAY OF THE RACE AND BACK OUT THE NEXT DAY. YET BECAUSE BAFFERT DIDNT SEND THIS FILLY THERE WEEKS IN ADVANCEM ONCE AGAIN ITS PILE ON BOB TIME. AND YES EV,HE DOES HAVE ANIOTHER ONE TO REPLACE HER. AND DO YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE THE OWNERS SEND HIM GOOD HORSES BECAUSE THEY KNOW HE IS THE BEST AT WHAT HE DOES...........WIN RACES AND MAKE MONEY. WHY SHOULDNT HE HAVE ANOTHER WAITING IN THE WINGS? WHO SHOULD THEY GIVE THE HORSE TO? SOMEONE WHO DOESNT WIN RACES?
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 13, 2013 22:30:40 GMT -5
The other filly, Socialbug, is a 3 yr old who's coming back from yet another "mysterious illness". She's by Curlin and won her only race.
You're right wiz - If horses are an investment and therefore a quick return is needed, Baffert's a trainer to go to. That's when it's about the $, not the horse.
But someone who loves the sport, has $ and doesn't see horses as investments, would go to a trainer like LoPresti.
Just because someone expresses a differing opinion or an uncomplimentary opinion does not necessarily mean bashing. If that were true, then you have mightily bashed Lukas and Saratoga LOL
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 13, 2013 22:52:57 GMT -5
I have bashed lukas, I admit. but more in defense of the constant bashing of baffert. but I will admit to that one. I have not bashed Saratoga. I have said countless times it is on a SLIGHTLY higher platform then del mar and it is a fine track with good racing and great history. I have never argued that. what I have done is defend del mar to the people who cant seem to stand that there is another track in this country that deserves some respect other then Saratoga. there is a big difference there.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 14, 2013 8:34:07 GMT -5
Think every track still open and racing deserves respect. Also think the East/West crap is stupid. Fans should want all tracks to succeed because racing has to stop it's decline.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 14, 2013 13:17:52 GMT -5
completely agree jon. now if you can convince the others on here of that, we can all live happily ever after betting on frac daddy and javas war.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 16:01:51 GMT -5
Java's War was scratched today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 16:19:00 GMT -5
As usual, Baffert has another to take her place. I agree about working on the Del Mar surface. Since the publicity, they've done a great job keeping stats hushed up. Does anyone know where to find the info? The JC stats are only thru last year. Limited statistics by track can be found here: www.jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp?section=2Unfortunately they only consider fatalities in races, not breakdowns and euthanized or retired horses after the race is history. National Fatalities per thousand starts 2012: 1.92 Santa Anita: 2.60 Hollywood Park: 2.04 for 2011, 2012 not available Del Mar: 2.46 Aqueduct Inner: 4.02 Aqueduct Main: 2.34 Belmont Park: 1.80 Saratoga: 1.17 Arlington Park: no statistics Fair Grounds: no statistics Gulfstream Park: 1.39 Woodbine: 0.55 I can't remember the last time I saw a horse break down at Woodbine. And although Aqueduct's inner number for 2012 is high, some think that was unusual, it is 1.7 higher than the each of the previous three years, and fatalities this past winter were way down, though not tabulated yet. But a big conclusion of the investigation into the breakdowns during the 2011-2012 inner track at Aqueduct was that there was a huge influx of cheaper, probably infirm horses whose connections were looking to take advantage of the spike in purses right after the casino opened. This past winter the class of races carded (less rock-bottom claimers) was improved, and breakdowns were much lower.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 14, 2013 16:46:33 GMT -5
ok so the aqueduct numbers are either equal or much higher then del mar and Belmont is only slightly less, but everyone wants to ride del mar and their trainers? and if your investigation statement is true, wouldn't that mean that the owners and trainers on the east coast are even more guilty of not caring about the well being of their horses who were unfit to be racing and just after the money? just asking?
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Post by Evelyn on Aug 14, 2013 20:41:32 GMT -5
I think those are old! Wiz - Did you red last year's NYT article? www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0And yes, I think a lot of owners are after the $ only. Really Wiz, it's always been that way. Or they move them from bigger tracks to small tracks like Beulah to hopefully get them claimed and get something back. It's worse becauser of the bigger purses. Are you equating Del Mar with Aqueduct? Maybe. It's certainly not Belmont or the Spa as far as horse/race quality goes At least, Aqueduct has done something about the problem. Here's another NYT article. Bless Earle Mack and !@#($&*@!#$ George Iacovacci and Kelly Spanabel www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/us/casino-cash-fuels-use-of-injured-horses-at-racetracks.html?pagewanted=allThere's a difference though. It's sad but true low level horses are sometimes raced until they drop. There are many in the game who try to make a living. It's terrible - especially when the wealthy do the same. The big names should set better examples, imho.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 14, 2013 21:07:21 GMT -5
im not talking about horse race quality. im talking about breakdowns and fatalities. I didn't post these numbers, George did. im just deciphering what I see. and yes, based on these numbers, Belmont isn't all that far off of del mar for fatalities. and what exactly has aqueduct done to fix the problem? improve the quality of horses? well aqueduct is no Saratoga, Belmont, or even del mar when it comes to the quality of horses. those numbers are gigantic for their inner track, but yet no one has ever spoken a word about their breakdowns or trainers running unfit horses. however if baffert has a horse throw a shoe during a race, he is blasphemized from here to bejing. I know it has always been this way ev ans far as it being only about money for some if not most. but my point once again is the greedy uncaring do not only reside here in ca. they are everywhere. even in the wonderful, perfect east coast.
now that I read your post again, I think I may have misinterpreted part of it. when you said its certainly not Belmont or Saratoga I thought you were referring to del mar, but now I think it was aqueduct. not sure.
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Post by Evelyn on Aug 14, 2013 21:22:06 GMT -5
Readtjhe TImes article. We mention Del Mar's bad surface because of the huge spike in injuries and breakdown the last few years.
Those numbers are not including workout breakdowns or fatalities. Those are only race figures. Tracks with larger fields and more races will probably have more.
Wiz - I'm not knocking Del Mar as a venue. But, the surface is BAD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 22:05:16 GMT -5
im not talking about horse race quality. im talking about breakdowns and fatalities. I didn't post these numbers, George did. im just deciphering what I see. and yes, based on these numbers, Belmont isn't all that far off of del mar for fatalities. and what exactly has aqueduct done to fix the problem? improve the quality of horses? well aqueduct is no Saratoga, Belmont, or even del mar when it comes to the quality of horses. those numbers are gigantic for their inner track, but yet no one has ever spoken a word about their breakdowns or trainers running unfit horses. however if baffert has a horse throw a shoe during a race, he is blasphemized from here to bejing. I know it has always been this way ev ans far as it being only about money for some if not most. but my point once again is the greedy uncaring do not only reside here in ca. they are everywhere. even in the wonderful, perfect east coast. now that I read your post again, I think I may have misinterpreted part of it. when you said its certainly not Belmont or Saratoga I thought you were referring to del mar, but now I think it was aqueduct. not sure. First, I pointed out that the numbers from the Jockey Club only include fatalities, not career ending injuries. At Del Mar last season there were 17 on track breakdowns/"vanned off" horses. According to the Jockey Club, only 7 were classified as "fatalities", but who knows how many of the additional 10 were ultimately fatalities (remember the Monzante incident recently?) or career ending injuries? In terms of the magnitude of the numbers, it might appear that Belmont isn't far off for fatalities, but the difference between 1.8 (Belmont) and 2.42 (Del Mar) is huge - like about 35%. What NYRA did at Aqueduct was increase the bottom level claiming value to eliminate the possibility of really cheap, infirm claiming horses from racing strictly for the increased casino-enhanced purses, and the increased the level of pre-race scrutiny on the condition of horses entered to race. It's not the best solution but it is something. As a result breakdowns at the 2012-2013 Aqueduct inner track and main track meets were lower (although exact statistics aren't available yet) No one was questioning the trainers themselves, just the safety of the track surfaces. But, since you raised the question, don't you wonder about the fact that Baffert had seven deaths, not just breakdowns, in a bit more than a year, and he gets all huffy when questioned about those deaths?
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 14, 2013 22:34:17 GMT -5
no not really. because the guy has been training for 40 years and never had a year like that. as I have said, couldn't it possibly be an aberration? just a bad streak of luck? what are his numbers in the last 8 months? not nearly as bad. I know this. but the guy has a bad run of luck with his horses and his credibility gets questioned by a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about. maybe he doesn't have any answers to those questions? mayhbe he doesn't know why it happened? but now suddenly to his haters he is a pariah. I would be huffy too. once again though its a one way street. give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, but lets persecute baffert.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 22:46:34 GMT -5
Not as many fatalities, but lots of mysterious "illnesses".
And after training quarterhorses for nine years, he started training thoroughbreds in 1991, only 22 years ago.
He still trains his thoroughbreds like they are quarterhorses.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on Aug 14, 2013 23:02:18 GMT -5
ok excuse me. he was a jockey before that and an assistant. he has been in the game for 40 years.
and if you mean he wins more then anyone else and is the best in the sport, then you are right. he trains exactly like he did them.
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