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Post by Evelyn on May 26, 2015 19:24:15 GMT -5
Good news! Certainly better cards than NY had!
Monmouth Reports Strong Memorial Day Weekend
Paulick Report
Monmouth Park proved the place to be this Memorial Day Weekend with a record-breaking 60,114 fans spinning through the turnstiles to enjoy Thoroughbred racing at the Jersey Shore coupled with the fourth annual food truck festival. Monday’s program was highlighted by Kenzadargent’s 3 ¼-length victory in the $75,000 Miss Liberty Stakes.
“The numbers we saw this weekend are indicative of the strength of our racing product and fan-friendly entertainment destination that we continue to build at Monmouth Park,” said Dennis Drazin, advisor to Darby Development LLC, operators of the Oceanport racetrack.
For the Saturday, Sunday and Monday of the holiday weekend, Monmouth saw an increase of 37.4% in attendance over the same figure last year. The total handle for the three days was $15,008,303, a 22.4% increase over last year, as the on-track handle came in at $2,264,176, a 15.5% gain. Through the first three weeks of racing, attendance is up 23.3%, with on-track and total handle both showing double digit gains.
In May of 2012, the New Jersey Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Association signed a lease of the racetrack and subsequently hired Darby as its operator.
“Where we could make cuts, we’ve made them; where we saw areas for improvement we enhanced them; and, where we saw opportunities for expansion, we pounced on them,” Drazin added. “Should this meet’s early successes continue, we will reevaluate some projects that have been placed on hold as well as look at some infrastructure improvements to the facility.
For us this is really just the beginning. To have come so far in such a short time is a testament to the dedication of our most valued resource, our employees. But even more importantly, it’s our fans, and that’s who we will continue to work for to deliver world-class Thoroughbred racing at a facility that is second to none.”
Since the horsemen’s association took the reins of the historic racetrack, Monmouth has seen the addition of a 36-hole miniature golf course (Blue Grass Mini Golf), four mega screen televisions, a High Definition signal, the construction of an OTB in Hillsborough and a new free-standing restaurant adjacent to the picnic area.
On the racetrack Monday afternoon, Martin Schwartz’s Kenzadargent waited for room on the fence before bursting through at the top of the straight and opening up to score a daylight victory. Trained by Chad Brown, Kenzadargent returned $5.80, $4 and $3.40 as the favorite in the field of 10 fillies and mares. Patsy’s Holiday completed the $31.60 exacta and paid $6.20 and $5. It was a neck back to Evidently, who rallied to pay $8.40 to show.
“I was on the rail the whole way and was very comfortable,” said winning jockey Jose Lezcano. “She finally got the hole as we hit the turn. She had plenty left for the stretch because she was behind horses the entire race. That was an impressive performance.”
A 4-year-old filly by Kendargent from the Epistolaire mare Quiza Bere, Kenzadargent was bred in France where she raced before coming to the U.S. last summer. She now sports a record of 4-7-1 from 16 career starts.
Live racing continues at Monmouth Park on Saturday, May 30 – gates open 11:30 a.m., first post 12:50 p.m. The 2015 racing season goes through Sunday, Sept. 27 with the highlight of the meet, the $1 million William Hill Haskell on Sunday, Aug. 2.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 3:29:24 GMT -5
i wont make a comment on this as im sure it will just be met by the usual suspects with the usual comments and excuses.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:53:47 GMT -5
Other than the Monday card with six NYB races (that was a terrible idea, ruined a traditional Memorial Day at Belmont Park) I can't see how anyone can say the racing was better than what NY had.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on May 27, 2015 10:47:05 GMT -5
That's easy to say. NY is nothing but turf and mdn and since I'm not an owner,trainer,jockey or jockey agent I don't give a damn about purse sizes. I'm only interested in races where I can wager without having to figure out races with 1st time mdns or ist on the grass horses. Give me a full card of older claimers and alw horses on the dirt and I'm happy camper. Parx, Fl, Tdn, Beltera,and MVR fill that bill nicely.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 13:56:43 GMT -5
once again, i have to agree with lt1. for everyday gamblers, ny racing sucks. im really not trying to be intigative here either. i guess if you are just a fan who bets once a week or so or just strictly a weekend player once or twice a month month, it is what you want. more big races with name horses in them. but gambling wise, like lt1 said, the big fields they do attract are in the kind of races MOST people dont like. also he races that do have the big purses are usually miniscule fields with no betting value. those big purse races are also getting more and more over run with over rated horses compare to other regions. of course, we wont even talk about when aqueduct runs as i dont really consider aqueduct even on the same circuit as belmont and saratoga anymore. aqueduct is basically to ny racing what los alamitos is now to california thoroughbred racing. the only difference is los al has had one year to get the kinks out and should improve its racing with a longer meet. aqueduct is just waiting to be put out of its misery like an old broken down -horse. sort of like me.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on May 27, 2015 15:07:20 GMT -5
Wiz they will never understand what we mean. I have a nice following for my picks on another site and never do I hear a complaint about the tracks I play since they are happy making money. In fact I don't remember anyone asking me to cap a NY track. Even among the other posters there are only a few days when picks from NY are posted and usually on a day like Monday or other big day. As for the Monday card being hurt by State Bred races that's bunk. What hurt Monday was the greedy bastards at NYRA moving the Met Mile from where it belonged to Belmont Day where it wasn't needed.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 17:02:37 GMT -5
I guess I'm included in your "they".
The bottom line is that this weekend there were about $30 MILLION dollars bet on the three cards at Belmont Park. That number is NOT comprised of small bettors or people who bet once a week or two. Two dollar bettors bet maybe $50 to $100 on a card. You'd need a LOT of casual bettors to make up $10M in handle per day.
Everyday bettors are betting on New York cards with both fists, even the aesthetically weak Monday card (just shy of 11 MILLION dollars). That too is not the result of casual bettors. In fact, there was more than $2M bet ON TRACK, almost four times that bet on-track at Monmouth and more than double that of the on/off track handle at Parx.
The problem with betting tracks like Parx, Finger Lakes, Mahoning Valley, Belterra, etc. (by the way the late daily double pool at Belterra on Monday was a whopping $1037, the late Pick 3 pool was $849, the late Pick 4 pool was $1700 and the Pick 5 pool was $1375) is that if you're a serious gambler you can't even consider betting any of those tracks - a $100 win bet at Belterra on a horse would drive the odds down from 4- or 5-1 down to odds on. And if you tried to place that bet offshore they'd laugh, they would never consider a $100 bet on a pool of a few hundred dollars to begin with.
All this stuff about there being "better gambling opportunities" is just smoke and mirrors, there are few if any good betting opportunities for everyday gamblers at those tracks.
Finally, remember this documented fact - 21 cents of EVERY dollar bet every year on thoroughbred races in North America are bet on Aqueduct, Belmont, and Saratoga.
I agree with wiz, the winter meet at Aqueduct sucks, I wish they could figure out a way to close down for two or three months in the dead of winter. But still, even as bad as the winter meet at Aqueduct attracts more betting than all but the three or four major tracks running at that time (Gulfstream, Oaklawn, Santa Anita, maybe Fair Grounds)
So, people can put down NY racing with contrived reasons, but the fact is the big gamblers still look to those three tracks for their major wagers. None of them consider tracks like Parx, FL, MVR, etc.
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cait
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Post by cait on May 27, 2015 17:51:57 GMT -5
agree with lt - am not a huge bettor nor do I use robotic betting which I would guess are the "big bettors" geo is referring to - for me, better value at FL, Pim/Laurel, Mon. i also find some good value at the big A winter meet where one has to pick which race to bet - certainly there are many that don't warrant a bet - feel the same re PARX
and i love Monmouth - it was even nice when i went to dog shows there! do you guys think people simply have lucky tracks? i've always done really well at FL and Mon
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 19:29:10 GMT -5
The program gamblers (robotic gamblers) are part of it, but there are also some big bettors playing horses every day, and they're not going to be betting several hundred or several thousand dollars to win on a horse where the total win pool on the race is only a few thousand dollars.
But as you say, everyone has their preferences, their favorite tracks, and tracks where they do better. But to characterize the racing at the most popular tracks to bettors as inferior is way off base. If that were the case why would the three NY tracks be among the top-rated tracks in North America by HANA (HorsePLAYERS' Association of North America)?
Again, everyone has preferences, bets and tracks that they feel more comfortable at and do better at. I do well at Charles Town in the winter (not the summer), I used to do well at Lone Star until they cut back on their program, I never did well at the Fair Grounds or Gulfstream.
Some people don't like maiden races (me included) but some love them. Some like turf racing, some like distance races, some sprints. There used to be a guy that did the Saratoga seminar at Siro's who would only bet on one-turn races on the dirt, and then only if the track was fast.
Getting back to the point, one could say "I didn't like the cards at Belmont this weekend", but shouldn't definitively proclaim "the cards at Monmouth were better". If that was the case the handle at Belmont (the BEST measure of the quality of racing and/or betting opportunities) wouldn't have been double that at Monmouth Park for less races.
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on May 27, 2015 20:55:20 GMT -5
Alan for the record several whales that play my picks do in fact play Parx . Again we are not talking about handle. Hell if NYRA and Cali don't get the most bet on them that would really be a story. Are not they the 2 biggest circuits. Today at TDN I HIT A DD FOR $74.60, EXS FOR $80.80 $62.60,$29.60,AND $24 PLUS A P3 FOR $124.10 and Winners paying $9.40,$14.80 and $9.60. Each day at the smaller tracks there are usually 3 to 4 races where good prices can be had. And as you know 3-1 at NY pays the same as 3-1 at Parx or anywhere else. And yes I'm aware of take out. As far as not playing mdn and turf races this is based on strict independant record keeping by me and my partner. We had found that due to the many unknown factors involved our win % drops between 10 & 12%. That doesn't mean we never play them but they are few and far between. Also we have found that most stake races are poor betting propositions. The other good thing about the smaller circuits is you deal with fewer shippers and dist. changes which is the reason I do look at Aqu inner. Oh Cait so sorry I did forget to mention Pim and Lrl tracks I also play.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 22:03:30 GMT -5
But if you bet $500 on any of those horses to win the prices would have been much lower since the pools are tiny.
If one wanted to make a living at betting on horses, he'd never survive betting into $10,000 win pools. That "3-1" at Thistledown, with a bet large enough for a sustainable profit, would probably wind up being 2-1 or worse. That's parimutuel wagering.
But back to my original premise, the racing at Belmont Park and Saratoga (not so much Aqueduct) has been recognized by bettors nation-wide on a day-to-day basis as the best in the country, regardless of what anti-NYRA people say. That's why 21 cents of EVERY dollar bet on races in North America is bet on the three tracks annually.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 22:21:56 GMT -5
george, do you think mcdonalds, burger king, and wendys have the three best hamburgers in the nation?
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Post by Evelyn on May 27, 2015 22:35:47 GMT -5
George - I'm confused because first you say "the big Bettors", then you say "bettors nation-wide"? I think we're talking about "regular bettors" such as most of us. I agree overall there is better value at other tracks. And much as Wiz will hate this, we love betting the MD grass races at both tracks. Usually good value (unless Ben's running LOL)
Also, I don't need semantics lessons. My opinion - because I wrote the post - was (and still is!) the cards at Monmouth last weekend were better than NY! It's also NOT "anti NY racing". We support our tracks and horsemen. We do not support the absolutely BAD BAD puppet NYRA! We will probably not vote in the next election unless the NY Dems come to their senses and offer a different candidate than the current Gov, who is simply terrible.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 22:51:08 GMT -5
wiz, none of those hamburgers are among the best in the country, but no one makes a living eating hamburgers every day, but many people make a living betting on races every day.
When you were in your heyday, without getting in trouble with the IRS here, how much a day or week did you bet?
Evelyn, "regular" bettors like you and I don't bet thousands of dollars on a race. Remember, Belmont typically has under 10,000 people there on a Saturday, but their live handle is maybe $2M - an AVERAGE of $200 each.
Obviously not everyone there is betting $200 on the card, many don't even bet $50. On the other hand there are probably 500 who bet thousands or more during the course of a day. Those are the "big bettors" at the track. Also, on a Saturday the simulcast handle is $7-$8 million "nation-wide". There certainly aren't 30-40,000 people betting $200+ on Belmont's races. No, there are some people betting tens of thousands of dollars on their races - those are also "big bettors".
I'd guess that you won't find many bettors betting tens of thousands of dollars on the races at Parx or Thistledown.
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Post by Evelyn on May 27, 2015 23:00:45 GMT -5
George - I would say most do bet close to $200 because they took the time to go to the tracks. Most of your "big bettors" don't. $200 in NY isn't much anyway. I really think you overestimate the term "big bettors". I still applaud Monmouth for good #'s - for them - and am sure that's all that matters for any track. The comparison of handle to other tracks means nothing and has nothing to do with he quality of racing. The Mem Day card at Belmont was embarrassing and would have been more appropriate for a Feb Sat at The Big A
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 0:53:05 GMT -5
George - I'm confused because first you say "the big Bettors", then you say "bettors nation-wide"? I think we're talking about "regular bettors" such as most of us. I agree overall there is better value at other tracks. And much as Wiz will hate this, we love betting the MD grass races at both tracks. Usually good value (unless Ben's running LOL) Also, I don't need semantics lessons. My opinion - because I wrote the post - was (and still is!) the cards at Monmouth last weekend were better than NY! It's also NOT "anti NY racing". We support our tracks and horsemen. We do not support the absolutely BAD BAD puppet NYRA! We will probably not vote in the next election unless the NY Dems come to their senses and offer a different candidate than the current Gov, who is simply terrible. doesnt matter to me ev. besides that really has nothing to do with the point lt1 was making. it isnt your money ev, or anyone elses in here, that is keeping any of these tracks afloat. people like you, and im not being condescending here, are going to play your local or favorite tracks regardless. but he was referring to the "serious bettors" or big bettors looking for value at the smaller tracks. the gambling is bettor at many other tracks then either new york or ca. right now. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 1:06:24 GMT -5
wiz, none of those hamburgers are among the best in the country, but no one makes a living eating hamburgers every day, but many people make a living betting on races every day. When you were in your heyday, without getting in trouble with the IRS here, how much a day or week did you bet? Evelyn, "regular" bettors like you and I don't bet thousands of dollars on a race. Remember, Belmont typically has under 10,000 people there on a Saturday, but their live handle is maybe $2M - an AVERAGE of $200 each. Obviously not everyone there is betting $200 on the card, many don't even bet $50. On the other hand there are probably 500 who bet thousands or more during the course of a day. Those are the "big bettors" at the track. Also, on a Saturday the simulcast handle is $7-$8 million "nation-wide". There certainly aren't 30-40,000 people betting $200+ on Belmont's races. No, there are some people betting tens of thousands of dollars on their races - those are also "big bettors". I'd guess that you won't find many bettors betting tens of thousands of dollars on the races at Parx or Thistledown. but the point is george, that there are a lot of deciding factors that go into how much a track handles and which three tracks (or hamburger stands) are the most popular. just because a track is handling the most money doesnt mean it has the best racing or value for the gambler. stuff like past success and popularity, advertising, location, weather, word of mouth, and previous years meets. a lot of people bet on new york or ca. tracks just because they know those tracks and have never heard of a parx or charlestown racetrack. not because the racing or value is bettor. and yes, that includes big time bettors as well. believe me, some of the dumbest players out there are the big bettors. they play these tracks only because of the size of the pools. not because the value or racing is bettor. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 1:12:29 GMT -5
wiz, none of those hamburgers are among the best in the country, but no one makes a living eating hamburgers every day, but many people make a living betting on races every day. When you were in your heyday, without getting in trouble with the IRS here, how much a day or week did you bet? Evelyn, "regular" bettors like you and I don't bet thousands of dollars on a race. Remember, Belmont typically has under 10,000 people there on a Saturday, but their live handle is maybe $2M - an AVERAGE of $200 each. Obviously not everyone there is betting $200 on the card, many don't even bet $50. On the other hand there are probably 500 who bet thousands or more during the course of a day. Those are the "big bettors" at the track. Also, on a Saturday the simulcast handle is $7-$8 million "nation-wide". There certainly aren't 30-40,000 people betting $200+ on Belmont's races. No, there are some people betting tens of thousands of dollars on their races - those are also "big bettors". I'd guess that you won't find many bettors betting tens of thousands of dollars on the races at Parx or Thistledown. not true george. when i was playing my biggest, almost all of my money was being bet at small venue tracks and i was betting anywhere between 5-15 thousand a day through the windows and even more offshore. i would bet los al, ca. fairs, and new mexico and texas qh tracks. all of which have miniscule handle compared to the major tracks in new york and ca.. |
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lt1
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Post by lt1 on May 28, 2015 7:57:27 GMT -5
Ok Alan to make you happy I'll concede NY has the "best" racing in the country just not the best wagering races. The whales I know bet off shore or at bookies and I'll admit I don't have a clue how that effects the track pools. All I know is these guys are rolling in dough. You have been around the NY tracks a long time so I think you will remember the Wizard tout sheet. By his own statement he bets $500 a race. So assuming he makes only a win bet and the horse pays only $6 he gets back $1500. That's a profit of $1000 on the race and we know they are getting horses that pay more then $6. And let us not forget these guys and gals also play exotics. By holding out for "value" he and the whales I know do very well for themselves. Remember they don't make "action" bets. They are disciplined and manage their money well. Heck as an average bettor I make a pretty good monthly income on the ponies. So take your shots at Parx and other mid level and small tracks if you must but I will just continue collecting.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 8:21:40 GMT -5
Ok Alan to make you happy I'll concede NY has the "best" racing in the country just not the best wagering races. The whales I know bet off shore or at bookies and I'll admit I don't have a clue how that effects the track pools. All I know is these guys are rolling in dough. You have been around the NY tracks a long time so I think you will remember the Wizard tout sheet. By his own statement he bets $500 a race. So assuming he makes only a win bet and the horse pays only $6 he gets back $1500. That's a profit of $1000 on the race and we know they are getting horses that pay more then $6. And let us not forget these guys and gals also play exotics. By holding out for "value" he and the whales I know do very well for themselves. Remember they don't make "action" bets. They are disciplined and manage their money well. Heck as an average bettor I make a pretty good monthly income on the ponies. So take your shots at Parx and other mid level and small tracks if you must but I will just continue collecting. This discussion didn't start with me taking shots at Parx and small tracks (I've been to just about every one of them and they're very nice), it was the gratuitous shot at NY tracks in a discussion about Monmouth Park. |
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