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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 7, 2013 23:16:03 GMT -5
and how many of those victories have come in the last 15 years or so? anyone can drop an entry slip in the box. he runs horses just to see his name and his owners names in the spotlight. horses that are clearly overmatched and have no chance, and everyone thinks its cute because hes becoming a senile old man. if baffert ran these typ horses who have never accomplished anything in their lives, he would be executed by the public. its a complete double standard. ya know just because you get old, doesnt mean you should be forgiven for being an Ahole when you were younger, or still are now. i look at these situations just like i used to with dale earnhardt. of course its a shame he died. but he was an Ahole before it happened and a danger to the other drivers. just because you die doesnt turn you into a saint.
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Post by Evelyn on May 8, 2013 8:05:45 GMT -5
I have a ? - If the Preakness has too many entries, which ones get in? Is it by earnings?
wiz - I think you're being harsh. Baffert has run horses that don't belong. I think most trainers do. Sometimes it's the owners. Sometimes I think, with the large purses, they are running for a share of the mega dollars. For example - 95% of the horses that ran against Zenyatta in CA didn't belong in Grade 1's! (That is an example - I am not looking for a Zen argument!)h
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Post by Evelyn on May 8, 2013 8:20:14 GMT -5
Lukas Names Jockeys for Preakness Trio By Steve Haskin, Updated: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 Trainer D. Wayne Lukas has put together a formidable team of jockeys to ride his three starters in the 138th Preakness Stakes (gr. I) May 18. Lukas said Gary Stevens will remain aboard Oxbow, who finished sixth in the Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I); Mike Smith will ride Will Take Charge, who finished a troubled eighth in the Derby, getting stopped cold in the upper stretch after moving stride for stride with the victorious Orb; and Julien Leparoux will ride Titletown Five, who is coming off a fourth-place finish in the Derby Trial Stakes (gr. III). "Gary is learning more about Oxbow every day, and he is a difficult horse to ride, because he's so aggressive and so responsive," Lukas said. "And I thought we'd take a chance with a Hall of Famer in Mike Smith." Leparoux's main strength is getting a horse to relax, and Titletown Five has been cooked on the pace in his last three starts after breaking his maiden by nine lengths last October. Lukas' big disappointment in the Derby was seeing Will Take Charge make a huge move on the far turn under Jon Court while matching strides with the eventual winner, only to check sharply when he got stopped by a tiring Verrazano. "He was going to be 1-2, and he might have won it," Lukas said. "I was sick over it. We had a chance to pull it off with the seven-week layoff, and I think I had it right. That horse is 17 hands and you can't just stop and start with a horse that big. "With Oxbow, Gary saw the rail open up and he moved a little early on him, but that horse ran huge. I thought both of them did. But we'll live with it and go on to the Preakness. The most important thing for a horse trainer is to have a bad memory. Both horses pulled up excellent and I'm looking forward to the Preakness." Lukas said his horses will van from Louisville to Baltimore. Md., on Tuesday, May 14, leaving at about 4 a.m. (EDT) and arriving about 5 or 6 p.m. Read more on BloodHorse.com: www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/78142/lukas-names-jockeys-for-preakness-trio#ixzz2ShtVj0Nl |
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 14:40:22 GMT -5
ev, first the zenyatta statement. i agree. that is why i have never been a believer that zenyatta was as great as everyone thinks. she was great, but not the best mare i have seen for sure. beating up on briecat and others like her for 3 years doesnt mean a whole lot. especially when your doing it in your own backyard on flubber. she left those confines twice and got beat once. yes she ran some great races, but so did lava man. is he considered an all time great? in ca. maybe, but not anywhere else. same thing for game on dude up to this point.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 16:33:57 GMT -5
secondly, the baffert lukas comparison. if baffert is guilty of amnything (and he is) it is over racing and training his horses, especially as young horses, which is exactly what lukas did in his prime as well. but baffert is not running them just to see his name in the spotlight like lukas does. bob is after the all mighty dollar. in fact he goes out of his way to try to find easier spots for his horses in some not so prestigious races with big purses. he will ship horses to smaller venues to go after the money and face easier competition rather then enter his horses in spots where they dont belong. for example races like the delta downs futurity, or derbies like the penn. and ohio, rather then entering them in the ky., preakness, or belmont just to get them in the spotlight. how many horses has baffert run in the derby off of sub par races beforehand? or continued to push along the TC trail after getting oblitterated in ky.? not many if any. whereas lukas will run the same horse in all 3 legs just to have an entrant. i have scene it many times. horses who were non competitive in any of the 3 legs. i have scene it many times. if you give me a minute im sure i can find many examples.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 18:29:28 GMT -5
in lukas's own words at least 35 of the 47 horses he has started in the derby did not deserve to be there he has said recently. of course that hasnt stopped him from continuing to enter overmatched runners this year. anyone remember optimizer last year? all three legs, never close. flying private in 2009 or so i believe? im doing this off of memory because i cant find a list. he has done it for years. people bash pletchers derby record but lukas is only what, 3 for 47? is that something to brag about? not in my book.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 20:45:07 GMT -5
ok so going back to 2205 at least........
2005 one derby starter. going wild 18th at huge odds in the derby. ran back and last in the preakness at 30-1
2006, 2207, 2008, no strters apparently
2009 flying private last of 20 at 50-1. still ran in preakness, a plodding 4th at 50-1. belmont 8th at 12-1.
luv gov. no derby. 8th in preakness at 50-1 4th in belmont at 25-1
2010 dublin drby 7th at 12-1 5th in preakness at 10-1
northern giant last in preakness at 20-1
2011 no starter.
2012 optimizer 11th at 50-1 in derby. 6th at 30-1 in preakness. 10th in belmont at 20-1.
even the races his horses got remotely close, they had no bussiness being in the race off of their previous races, and only got closer because the field sizes were shrinking with each race. noit only has he not won any tc race for 13 years or the derby for 14 years, but he never even comes close anymore.
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cait
Active Member
Posts: 3,821 
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Post by cait on May 8, 2013 22:59:36 GMT -5
well wiz is not a lukas fan lol i'm not really a "fan" either but i like him - why? i do think he cares for his horses - hands on - i think baffert and pletcher probably care also - but - they have too many owners, too many horses, and several "bases" - they are corporations in a sense that lukas wasn't - lukas had several really big owners so he had a lot of horses also but not spread out across the country (don't mean shipping for a certain race - mean based in several places) he worked with his son/asst trainer in person - not via phone
owners pressure trainers to run their horses in big races - i can't assume all the entry decisions are made solely by the trainer - without happy owners, they are out of business - and 4th purse $ in these rich races is probably more than the horse would earn with an allowance win at home - there are some wealthy folks really enjoy and want to be a part of the "galas" - and hope they might land a piece of the purse but the $'s not as important to them as the "scene"
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