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Post by shooter29 on May 7, 2013 13:23:13 GMT -5
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Post by eliteone on May 7, 2013 16:04:09 GMT -5
Poor Ronnie, when did he go senile?
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 7, 2013 16:19:40 GMT -5
lol that fall must have jarred his noggin pretty good.
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Post by racinggal on May 7, 2013 17:04:12 GMT -5
I couldn't get the link opened. Here's a different one for the video: www.wkyt.com/sports/headlines/Turcotte-predicts-Triple-Crown-for-Orb-206367891.htmlHere's the article: LEXINGTON, Ky. (WKYT) - Ron Turcotte rode Secretariat to the Triple Crown in 1973, he's predicting the same for Orb 40 years later. Monday, at Claiborne Farm in Paris, where Secretariat stood and is buried, Turcotte made his prediction. "I love Orb from the time I saw him run in Florida. I loved the way he matured at the right time. As a 2-year old, ya know, he ran decent races but not great races. He broke his maiden as a 2-year old, but he came back and kept winning, improving from race to race. And this was his best race here (Kentucky Derby) and my opinion, I think he will keep improving and I really believe he's gonig to win the Triple Corwn." Secretariat not only won the Triple Crown with Turcotte in the saddle, he won all three races in track record time. Turcotte calls him the greatest horse that ever lived and the legend keeps growing. "And he was so generous and he was a gift that kept on giving. And every year it seems to be his achievements seem to be bigger and bigger." Turcotte's riding career ended in a fall at Belmont Park in 1978, the accident left him a parapeligic. Now nearing the age of 72, Turcotte was at Churhcill Downs Saturday and he plans to be at the next two Triple Crown races.
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Post by racinggal on May 7, 2013 17:06:31 GMT -5
I think Turcotte, like everyone else, is wishing for a TC Winner, and enjoying the win because of the history of the trainer and owners.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 7, 2013 17:14:36 GMT -5
well you know what they say. wish with one hand and bet your 2 dollars with the other, and they will both be empty as soon as the race is over.
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Post by racinggal on May 7, 2013 17:27:00 GMT -5
I never heard that before LOL I would like a TC Winner! I wonder if in the 80's, the racing fans from the 50's were equally hard on the horses running? I think Orb is a good horse. I don't really know but I do like the connections and believe what they say - more than what other connections might say.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 7, 2013 23:07:23 GMT -5
apollo what does what secretariat did 40 years ago have to with an old mans opinion of a completely different horse who he has probably never even been within 50 miles of? last time i checked, turcotte had not won ant sort of habdicapping awards or had anything to do with purchasing, raising, training, or controlling the career of a champion racehorse.
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 4:05:15 GMT -5
lolol dont apologize. everyone has an opinion. im just asking what your basing your opinion of turcottes opinion on?
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Post by mrdelmarwasmybitch on May 8, 2013 4:10:56 GMT -5
people listening to turcottes opinion on this is like listening to susan sarandon, angelina jolie,. or say sean penn spout off about how to fix the problems in the middle east or their opinions on immigration issues or terrorism. who cares? their opinion means nothing more then yours, mine, or any other joe blowwalking down the street. its like interviewing the celebrities before the derby. do we really need to see that nonsense?
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Post by eliteone on May 8, 2013 10:32:13 GMT -5
Cauthen picked IHA last year to do it and at least he had the horse imo. Turcotte is tripping imo. Even if Orb does it what would that do for the club? Orb is Real Quiet LITE. RQ's crop blows this one away. I'm sure we'll see a TC winner again someday but it will mean very little if these kind of horses win it.
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Post by shooter29 on May 8, 2013 13:11:44 GMT -5
Firstly let me say that I posted Ronnie Turcotte's comments not as an endorsement of his opinion nor as a dismissal either. Just thought it was interesting to hear his take being that he has actually ridden a Triple Crown winner to victory. Whether you think he's a genius or a loon is totally up to you.
Secondly, come on Teach! Comparing Orb to Real Quiet is just plain silly. When RQ won the Derby he was a second-stringer behind Indian Charlie and really nog on anybody's radar. Orb went of as the favorite I. Louisville. He was expected to win and he did so emphatically. If he does manage to complete the sweep (and yes at this point that is still a pretty big if) then he will take his place in history alongside the likes of War Admiral, Whirlaway, Citation Secretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed in Triple Crown lore and he will have earned that spot in the same manner as his predecessors.
IMO and it is JMO of course, Orb is a better horse than IHA. The difference between the two is that whereas Orb was allowed to grow and develop at his own pace, IHA was pushed to his limits and beyond, ultimately to his own detriment. Like Shug said "We didn't bring him to the Derby, he brought us to the Derby" and so forth. Only time will tell the tale of how this crop of three-year-olds will measure up and whether Orb is the best of the best or just the best of the rest. But at this point, he has just as much a chance of being "The One" has any of those who came before him. He's still growing, still maturing and we have not seen the best of him just yet. So stay tuned.
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Post by Evelyn on May 8, 2013 20:25:24 GMT -5
Here's another opinion re Orb, Both Turcotte and Illman are/were involved in racing so I do think their opinions mean more than Angela Jolie etc! I agree with the last line of this. Orb! By Dan Illman What more can be said about ORB? He's wonderfully consistent, has an excellent turn of foot, handles any kind of racetrack and it looks like he can stay all day. After splashing under the hallowed Twin Spires as a popular winner of the Kentucky Derby, racing fans are turning their attention to the Triple Crown, the sword in the stone that hasn't been conquered since Affirmed in 1978. Not to take anything away from the talented Orb, but it's fair to say that some of his vanquished foes were compromised by the wet footing at Churchill Downs, and that's something to consider when Orb goes off at odds-on in the Preakness. Todd Pletcher's "fab five" were all beaten by Orb, and Pletcher thought the footing hurt VERRAZANO, who is now being pointed to the Haskell. "He just never got the kind of trip we hoped for," said Pletcher. "That fast pace was just no good for him. And he was the one -- of all our horses -- who was affected most by the racetrack. He just couldn’t handle it.” Eddie Plesa, trainer of possible Preakness entrant ITSMYLUCKYDAY, also felt the track hurt his horse's chances. "Elvis (Trujillo) said he didn’t like the track. It was something I was concerned about, but we were all running on the same track.” John Terranova, trainer of Falling Sky, mentioned that the longshot didn't handle the track. He emerged from the race with a chip and will be on the sidelines for the time being. Also, while it's quite possible that GOLDENCENTS won't last a classic distance, his cause was hurt considerably when the newly-blinkered PALACE MALICE ran off on the lead. Goldencents' rider, Kevin Krigger, was stuck between a rock and a hard place after the opening furlong. After breaking slowly, Goldencents rushed up to set the pace, but he was immediately confronted by Palace Malice. If Krigger went with the Pletcher runner, a speed duel would certainly have cooked him. He chose Plan B, which was to rate Goldencents, a horse that doesn't like to be told what to do. Perhaps he deserves another chance in Baltimore. Either way, Orb-Mania will be running wild until the Preakness. Let's enjoy the ride.www.drf.com/blogs/orb
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cait
Active Member
Posts: 3,821
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Post by cait on May 8, 2013 23:46:33 GMT -5
o agree that turcotte's opinion certainly means more than hollywood "stars"! i think he believes he"knows horseflesh" and perhaps he does - the man's entitled to his opinion and we can disagree or agree with that opinion and decide for ourselves if it's one to respect - again - turcotte is from a different era
i disagree with all of the negativity being expressed for Orb - i think he has great potential and may be the best TC hopeful in years - and like shooter, i hope he does!
IF Orb wins the TC, he belongs right beside the other TC winners - why? everyone seems to agree horses are not bred as strong and tough and solid and capable of distance as they "used to be" - that may explain why it's been so long for a horse to win the TC
it would then also explain why, if Orb pulls it off, in the reality of today's racing, he is "special"
i highly respect Orb's connections - recently in one of his many interviews shug said something along the lines of (this is not a direct quote - i was watching, not taking notes!) that orb was special because he was old school breeding - i think there's truth to that - i have great respect re breeding for not only the phipps but the pons of country life farm - these are old school breeders - they know enough to look beyond black type - imo the blacktype measurement (used ad nauseum for advertising) is one reason breeding has taken a spiral downwards
i confess i do the same re dog breeding - champions are good but too many people rush to breed to them because they won - not because of their pedigrees and what they may produce
here's a paulick report article about orb's sire, Malibu Moon -= i think oprb is the son MM's been waiting for!
from july, 2010 - Paulick Report
malibu moon bucks the trend of modern stallions
As stallion prospects, horses who do not win stakes manage to succeed as sires only at a rate of less than 1 percent, and in the present state of Thoroughbred breeding, where better stallions have been receiving books in excess of 100 mares for nearly two decades, the opportunities are even more miniscule for a horse without a stakes record to make the grade as a sire.
Given these odds, the accomplishments of the outstanding A.P. Indy stallion Malibu Moon shine even brighter.
Winner of a salty maiden special as a 2-year-old at Hollywood Park in 1999 and second in his only other start, Malibu Moon went to stud the following year as a 3-year-old in Maryland at the Pons family’s Country Life Farm. A big, good-looking colt when I saw him on a sunny winter afternoon in Maryland, Malibu Moon has grown into a powerful and very handsome stallion.
But beauty is as beauty does in breeding, and over the past decade, Malibu Moon has exceeded all the hopes of Wayne Hughes, who raced him, and of the syndicate members and breeders who have supported him since he was transferred to Kentucky, where he now stands at Hughes’ Spendthrift Farm.
Malibu Moon moved to Kentucky because he got good horses from the beginning. Sire of a good horse in his first crop named Perfect Moon, winner of the Hollywood Juvenile Championship and Best Pal Stakes at 2, Malibu Moon sired a champion in his second: Grade 1 winner Declan’s Moon.
Subsequent winners at the top level include such current stars as Devil May Care (Frizette and Mother Goose), Funny Moon (Coaching Club American Oaks), and Life at Ten (Ogden Phipps Handicap).
In Saturday’s Delaware Handicap, Life at Ten won her sixth race in a row, and among her beaten competition was Funny Moon in third. On the same day and a continent’s breadth away, Sweet August Moon won the A Gleam Handicap at Hollywood Park.
The span between his major winners on Saturday is symbolic of the versatility of the stallion’s stock. He sires top 2-year-olds, older horses, fillies, colts, sprinters, and routers. He even has a good steeplechaser.
Such versatility is not common in stallions, but it is an indicator of one thing: exceptional natural athleticism.
Given the volume of natural talent and success by the offspring of Malibu Moon, the next question to be asked is whether he is getting sons.
To date, the answer is “no.” But there is a reason for that. The stallion’s top three money-winning sons are all geldings!
Although he now stands for $40,000 on a live foal contract, Malibu Moon went to stud at a very modest stud fee, and his early sons’ job was to race and win, not to be stallion prospects. Now that their sire is fully established, the importance of his sons as stallion prospects is much greater, and presumably some of the best will retain their bits till they have proven their class on the racetrack and then will have a chance at stud.
The most promising of the stallion’s later sons is Tampa Bay Derby winner Odysseus. The grand-looking chestnut was bred in Kentucky by Haymarket and Lakemont Stable. Sold for $110,000 at the Fasig-Tipton yearling sale at Saratoga in 2008, Odysseus resold to Padua in 2009 for $250,000 at the Ocala Breeders Sales Company’s March auction of 2-year-olds in training from the consignment of Nick de Meric.
Like Odysseus, the stallion’s major winners this weekend also went through public auctions. Bred in Kentucky by Nickelback Farm, Life at Ten sold for $35,000 as a Keeneland September yearling in 2006. She is out of the winning Rahrahsixboombah (Rahy) and her third dam is Belle o’ Reason, by Hail to Reason, and a half-sister to the important sire Relaunch.
Sweet August Moon was bred by Maple Leaf Farm in Pennsylvania, and she sold to Tony Bowling and Bobby Dodd for $50,000 at the Keeneland September sale in 2006, then resold for $400,000 as a 2-year-old in training at the Ocala Breeders Sales Company’s March auction in 2007. Sweet August Moon is out of the winning Royal Academy mare Silent Academy.
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Post by shooter29 on May 9, 2013 1:49:14 GMT -5
Excellent Cait I honestly can't see how you could not root for Orb and his connections. The Phipps/Janneys are great people and a TC winner would be fitting culmination of their years of hard work and dedication to the sport. And Shug of course is all class. Of all the TC prospects that we've seen over the last 35 years, Orb has as good a chance as any of them. He's still getting better and if he can just get past the Preakness, I don't see any other horse having the stamina to outlast him in the Belmont. As a racing fan, I have not been this excited in quite some time. This is great for the sport.
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Post by mackdaddy on May 9, 2013 3:13:17 GMT -5
Does turcotte realize that the horse needs 2 more wins? Every year someone starts utttering the infamous T.C phrase and its the ultimate kiss of death. Just look at last year with IHA. Regardless of what happened and his reason to "scratch" , he was just another horse that failed to win the belmont when the crown was on the line. When orb does it, I will believe it. I don't think he wins in baltimore
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Post by eliteone on May 9, 2013 9:21:10 GMT -5
Sorry shooter but if Orb wins the TC they should call it the Triple Clown. ;D Seriously.
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Jon
Administrator
Posts: 4,669
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Post by Jon on May 9, 2013 23:20:39 GMT -5
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Post by curribot1 on May 10, 2013 13:08:17 GMT -5
Sorry shooter but if Orb wins the TC they should call it the Triple Clown. ;D Seriously. Cmon now E1, we have to restart the breeding somewhere. Cait is absolutely right, the investors have gone for the black types at mediocre shorter distances, you know that. The quick ROI is the game today, NOT RACING. Wiz already pointed out why it is difficult to win the TC, it is just plain very hard to do. So what if Orb is not the same caliber of past great thoros. If he wins the TC (not saying he will), he still will accomplished what others have failed to do for the past 30+ years and who knows what's ahead. That is saying something. Maybe peeps would wake up and look at the stock he ran against. This fragmented industry need to get back in what it did best when it attracted fans to the racetrack "GREAT THOROUGHBREDS", horses that are stars that hang around longer than this half a dozen races frail no stamina horses we breed today. They need a nationwide comprehensive plan to attract the bettors back to the racetrack and only great thoroughbreds will get some back. This frail speed short distance horses not the ticket. Just look at the bashing Baffert gets, if people step back, he is getting a lot of expensive horses that are mostly BRED TO GET TO THE DERBY (8,8.5,9f preps) BUT NOT BRED TO WIN THE DERBY at 10f!! he does his job as far as his owners wishes to get to the derby imo if it's really their wishes. So I am going to root for Orb, because his connection still believes that real racing are done at the classic distances. E1, You need to put on your poms poms and short skirt!!!!! and cheer on ORB!!! imo, If he wins the TC, who knows, it could be the beginning of breeding back great thoroughbreds that this industry badly needs to survive.
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Post by shooter29 on May 10, 2013 15:54:58 GMT -5
I agree Curri. You have to look at the big picture here. A triple crown win by Orb would do wonders for the industry. And not just from a publicity standpoint. It could be just the thing to finally bring about drastic change in the breed overall. The industry now is overrun by deep-pocketed fat cats who think that they can buy and sell their way to glory, credibility and TC immortality. Orb, Shug and the Phipps/Janneys have a chance to show that the type of reverence that they enjoy within the racing and breeding industry cannot be purchased at auction. History tells us that only one TC winner (Seattle Slew) has ever been sold at auction. The Phipps/Janneys represent the old school method of breeding racehorses to race, not stallions to sell. The reason we haven't had a TC winner in 35 years is specifically because the industry as a whole has moved away from this philosophy and turned racing into more business than sport. If Orb can win the TC, I predict that we will begin to see that way of thinking move in reverse. That wouldbe a welcome change and that is why I am rooting for Orb not just as a fan of the horse and of thr connections, but as someone who wants to see the sport of horse racing and the breeding industry that drives it become prominent once again.
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